Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (hadassah) — Wed, 06 Aug 2008 13:14:45 GMT

JohnySkeptic wrote:
And let's not forget that those various Xian translations are there to make money. If they changed the translations and removed "virgin birth" prophecies (for example) they'd sell less bibles and go out of business.
That is actually one of the reason why there is KJV only movement amongst fundamentalist, because the evidence(accurate translation) does not support their...

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (ProfBenTziyyon) — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 13:48:29 GMT

Sophiee1 wrote:
Therefore to the fundies the KJV is more accurate that the original!

Who needs facts when they have faith?

But there is a problem with blind faith: it blinds you.

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (Sophiee1) — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 10:45:29 GMT

Yep -- because they say the KJV is "divinely inspired" and they then go on to say there is a rabbinical conspiracy that changed the Hebrew (e.g. changing Isaiah 7:4 from virgin to young woman). These are the same conspiracy minded nuts who say that Jews don't read Isaiah 53 and so forth.

Therefore to the fundies the KJV is more accurate that the original!

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (ProfBenTziyyon) — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 09:18:22 GMT

JohnySkeptic wrote:
....the evidence(accurate translation) does not support their conclusion.

Even pure logic doesn't "support their conclusion"!

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (JohnySkeptic) — Thu, 31 Jul 2008 03:02:59 GMT

And let's not forget that those various Xian translations are there to make money. If they changed the translations and removed "virgin birth" prophecies (for example) they'd sell less bibles and go out of business.
That is actually one of the reason why there is KJV only movement amongst fundamentalist, because the evidence(accurate translation) does not support their conclusion.

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (UriYosef) — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:30:01 GMT

Mordochai -

This is great. Many thanks for the link and also for the offer to send me that file, which you may send to me at - uri@messiahtruth.com.

UriYosef

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (ProfBenTziyyon) — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 15:06:05 GMT

UriYosef wrote:
Unfortunately, I am unable to reproduce the verse here with all these markings....

Uri,

You can reproduce Hebrew text with ta'amim if you change the font to "Ezra SIL SR" - if you don't already have it, you can download this font from the SIL website (

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (ProfBenTziyyon) — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 13:19:43 GMT

Searching,

You have hit the nail squarely on the head; translation is not and can never be an exact science, even when translating between two languages that are similar one to the other (and Hebrew is not similar to any other language, with the possible exceptions of Aramaic and, to a lesser degree, Arabic). The reason for this is that few words of any language have one and only one sense (or meaning) - most words in most languages have several...

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (SearchinMyRoots) — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:51:32 GMT

AP,

Quote;
"No one here is translating from a translation. We're discussing the original Hebrew text."

SMR:
YES! That is what I was trying to say. All of the Jewish translations are from the original Hebrew text. Everything else is.........................who knows?????

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (pensteel) — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 10:36:04 GMT

SearchinMyRoots wrote:
If I may add a reply.

The Jewish people have tried to, in the best possible ways (which is still impossible to be 100% accurate), to interpet the Hebrew into English. Although there may be different "interpetations" of the Hebrew words, the Hebrew words have not changed their Hebrew meanings (which are much deeper than any interpetation can offer).

Others have...

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (SearchinMyRoots) — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 09:29:29 GMT

If I may add a reply.

The Jewish people have tried to, in the best possible ways (which is still impossible to be 100% accurate), to interpet the Hebrew into English. Although there may be different "interpetations" of the Hebrew words, the Hebrew words have not changed their Hebrew meanings (which are much deeper than any interpetation can offer).

Others have treid to "interpet" their versions based on the Jewish "English" translations, which...

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (ProfBenTziyyon) — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 22:25:47 GMT

pensteel wrote:
I'm confused by what this Christian, or any Christian, person or whatever is trying to prove out of Esther making her gentile companions fast. How does this make her a racist? This current discussion is over the nuances of the Hebrew in Esther but it seems like the initial challenge was "Esther is a racist" and since forcing your companions to fast does not seem to be in any particular sense racist (even if it were...

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (pensteel) — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:58:27 GMT

ProfBenTziyyon,

Sorry, I was referring to your original post where you wrote:

"...a christian asked me on PalTalk: "Esther was racist - why did she have to force her gentile companions to fast for three whole days just because the Jews were in trouble?"

I'm confused by what this Christian, or any Christian, person or whatever is trying to prove out of Esther making her gentile companions fast. How does this make...

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (ProfBenTziyyon) — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:43:49 GMT

pensteel wrote:
My question was more, "Even if what they are saying is true, what does this prove?"

I do detest the use of pronouns - such scope for vagueness and/or misunderstanding. Who are the "they" you refer to, please?

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (pensteel) — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:39:25 GMT

ProfBenTziyyon wrote:

The "big deal", pensteel, is that the Hebrew text is specifically worded in the singular (atzum, I will fast) and the meaning, per every commentator who offers an emendation, is that Estér was saying that she was going to fast too, even though she was surrounded by gentile attendants - remember that, at this point in the...

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (ProfBenTziyyon) — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:26:02 GMT

The "big deal", pensteel, is that the Hebrew text is specifically worded in the singular (atzum, I will fast) and the meaning, per every commentator who offers an emendation, is that Estér was saying that she was going to fast too, even though she was surrounded by gentile attendants - remember that, at this point in the story, nobody in the palace knows she is Jewish.

As for Uri's objection, I...

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (UriYosef) — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:11:53 GMT

Sophie

I note that the "we" in Uri's translation is in parenthesis.

I used the parentheses because in the Aramaic (as it is also in Hebrew) "we shall fast" is a single word. Perhaps I should have just left is there without the parentheses. The conjugated verb is definitely cast in the 1st-person, plural, future tense.

UriYosef

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (UriYosef) — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 21:05:56 GMT

I did a little more "research" on the details of the verse Ester 4:16, specifically, as it concerns the trop (cantillation) markings, notations that were provided by the Masoretes who also provided the vowels. These trop markings contain both "melodic signatures" and additional "reading instructions" to whoever chants the passages in the Hebrew Bible. Unfortunately, I am unable to reproduce the verse here with all these markings,...

Re: Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (Sophiee1) — Wed, 16 Jul 2008 19:57:45 GMT

It will be interesting to read the Professor's view of the Targum and the translation as given. I note that the "we" in Uri's translation is in parenthesis.

Also does anyone have an opinion about the Targum Sheni and its version of Esther? I realize this Targum is midrashic and of later origin but it would be interesting to see how it renders this. I'll research and see if I can find Targum Sheni online.

Another example of christian hatred towards Jews caused by KJPV

feeds@yuku.com (ProfBenTziyyon) — Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:27:25 GMT

It never ceases to amaze me how so many christians slavishly follow "King James's Per-Version" to the extent of demonising even the most heroic of Jewish characters; the most recent example of this that I have encountered was earlier today when a christian asked me on PalTalk: "Esther was racist - why did she have to force her gentile companions to fast for three whole days just because the Jews were in trouble?"

I reacted...