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Sun, 11-Nov-07 18:14:08
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Mon, 12-Nov-07 10:34:46
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Mon, 12-Nov-07 11:03:58
Mon, 12-Nov-07 12:47:47
Mon, 12-Nov-07 16:59:51
Quote:"Could it be that God has no objection to us paying the proper respect and even homage that someone or something is due?... And so it goes with Jesus. Even if he wasn't the divine Word in the flesh, He was every bit deserving of the proskuneo that was paid to Him during His time on earth."
Mon, 12-Nov-07 17:29:29
Mon, 12-Nov-07 18:03:18
Quote:Leviticus 11:10 [On the other hand], all creatures in seas and rivers that do not have fins and scales, whether they are small aquatic animals or other aquatic creatures, must be avoided by you. 11:11 They will [always] be something to be shunned. You must avoid them by not eating their flesh. 11:12 Every aquatic creature without fins and scales must be shunned by you.
Mon, 12-Nov-07 18:17:28
Quote:At the inception of Chrstianity, however, neither the concept of the Trinity nor the terms necessary to describe the idea existed. . . the process took hundreds of years. . .(page 1 . . ."Triadic arrangements of gods were surprisingly common in the ancient Near East. . .gods had bodies and were normally conceived in human form. . .Egypt had come closest to a doctrine of the Trinity in the pre-Xian era. . ."Xian Trinitarianism arosed instead out of the heated controversies over the nature of G-d among the various Xian groups. . ."Xians had not yet developed their central doctrine of G-d, the Trinity itself. It is fair to say that no one in the first century was a Trinitarian as the doctrine was later defined in the creeds of the 4th century. Trinitarianism was stimulated by the worship of the one G-d, the worship of Jsus as the Son of G-d, and the sense of the presence of G-d in the experience of the Spirit. . ."First Corinthians 8:6 has been termed a "binitarian" forumalation and it clearly embarassed scribes who copied the text in later times. In manuscripts stemming from after the era of the creeds of the 4th century, we find that scribes added a 3rd article to the binitarian formula: "and one Holy Spirit, in whom all things and we exist in it." In the time of the GT, however, not only had the relationship between the Father and Son not been clarified, but the very nature of the Holy Spirit had not been defined or even understood." (Pages 51-55).
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Mon, 12-Nov-07 18:32:17
Posts: 547
Mon, 12-Nov-07 19:43:52
Medini's post:paraphrase of Rebecca's points:Jesus was no longer on the planet....So how do you presume he is doing this inviting?...No, Clement wrote "the Lord Jesus Christ liveth".... but more .... the living, risen Lord bids us come. Personally. Through the working of the Holy Spirit.Medini:Fine, Rebecca, but none of this proves that the Son/JC is G-d in Clement's eyes or part of a Trinity. In fact, your objections logically founder on the fact that Eliyahu HaNavi is no longer on this planet but still lives and relates to other Jews (the Rashbi or Arizal for example) through the ruach hakodesh that he, as a navi, possesses, and yet no Jew would claim that Eliyahu is G-d (G-d forbid) or part of a Trinity.
Malachi wrote:Rebecca, take a look at this from the First Epistle of Clement to the Corinthians:Chapter I: "...Grace unto you, and peace, from Almighty God through Jesus Christ, be multiplied."Chapter XLII: "The apostles have preached the gospel to us from the Lord Jesus Christ; Jesus Christ (has done so) from God. Christ therefore was sent forth by God, and the apostles by Christ."Chapter LVIII: "May God, who seeth all things, and who is the ruler of all spirits and the Lord of all flesh - who chose our Lord Jesus Christ and us through him to be a peculiar people - grant to every soul that calleth upon his glorious and holy name, faith, fear, peace, patience, long-suffering...".Leaving eisegesis alone and letting the material speak for itself, there is nothing suggesting that Jesus is the Almighty G-d or that he is equal to him. The Almighty G-d is presented in contradistinction to Jesus Christ. Furthermore, the Almighty G-d is pictured as superior to Christ, "sending him forth" and "choosing him" for a specific purpose.
Tue, 13-Nov-07 04:53:33
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