Casting out demons in Jesus name

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Zero		#21	[-]
Posts: 6 (01/09/09 01:48:49) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	UriYosef wrote: Nonsense! Here's a good test of what you claim. Stand on an active railroad track and, as a train approaches, bring up yeshu's name and order the train to stop. If, as you say, there is power in your mangod's name, then you'll be able to return to our forum and report it to us. Jesus was tempted in a like manner when Satan dared him to flung himself down a cliff as angels would then come down "lest you dash your feet upon the ground". But Jesus said to Satan "You should not put the Lord your God to the test."
ProfBenTziyyon		#22	[-]
Posts: 1623 (01/09/09 01:54:59) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Zero wrote: There are numerous accounts of Jesus and his disciples delivering Israelites from evil spirits in the gospels. Do you regard these parts as fiction? God Himself answers your nonsense in D'varim 13:2-6 which you have obviously never read and so I reproduce what they say here for your information: כִּֽי־יָק֤וּם בְּקִרְבְּךָ֙ נָבִ֔יא א֖וֹ חֹלֵ֣ם חֲל֑וֹם וְנָתַ֥ן אֵלֶ֛יךָ א֖וֹת א֥וֹ מוֹפֵֽת׃ וּבָ֤א הָאוֹת֙ וְהַמּוֹפֵ֔ת אֲשֶׁר־דִּבֶּ֥ר אֵלֶ֖יךָ לֵאמֹ֑ר נֵֽלְכָ֞ה אַֽחֲרֵ֨י אֱלֹהִ֧ים אֲחֵרִ֛ים אֲשֶׁ֥ר לֹֽא־יְדַעְתָּ֖ם וְנָֽעָבְדֵֽם׃ לֹ֣א תִשְׁמַ֗ע אֶל־דִּבְרֵי֙ הַנָּבִ֣יא הַה֔וּא א֛וֹ אֶל־חוֹלֵ֥ם הַחֲל֖וֹם הַה֑וּא כִּ֣י מְנַסֶּ֞ה יְיָ֤ אֱלֹֽהֵיכֶם֙ אֶתְכֶ֔ם לָדַ֗עַת הֲיִשְׁכֶ֤ם אֹֽהֲבִים֙ אֶת־יְיָ֣ אֱלֹֽהֵיכֶ֔ם בְּכָל־לְבַבְכֶ֖ם וּבְכָל־נַפְשְׁכֶֽם׃ אַֽחֲרֵ֨י יְיָ֧ אֱלֹהֵיכֶ֛ם תֵּלֵ֖כוּ וְאֹת֣וֹ תִירָ֑אוּ וְאֶת־מִצְוֹתָ֤יו תִּשְׁמֹ֨רוּ֙ וּבְקֹל֣וֹ תִּשְׁמָ֨עוּ֙ וְאֹת֥וֹ תַעֲבֹ֖דוּ וּב֥וֹ תִדְבָּקֽוּן׃ וְהַנָּבִ֣יא הַה֡וּא א֣וֹ חֹלֵם֩ הַֽחֲל֨וֹם הַה֜וּא יוּמָ֗ת כִּ֣י דִבֶּר־סָ֠רָה֠ עַל־יְיָ֨ אֱלֹֽהֵיכֶ֜ם הַמּוֹצִ֥יא אֶתְכֶ֣ם ׀ מֵאֶ֣רֶץ מִצְרַ֗יִם וְהַפֹּֽדְךָ֙ מִבֵּ֣ית עֲבָדִ֔ים לְהַֽדִּֽיחֲךָ֙ מִן־הַדֶּ֔רֶךְ אֲשֶׁ֧ר צִוְּךָ֛ יְיָ֥ אֱלֹהֶ֖יךָ לָלֶ֣כֶת בָּ֑הּ וּבִֽעַרְתָּ֥ הָרָ֖ע מִקִּרְבֶּֽךָ׃ D'varim XIII: ²If a prophet or one who has dreamt a dream arises among you and gives you a sign or a wonder, ³and the sign or the wonder that he said to you happens and he says, "Let's go after strange gods (which you never knew) and let's worship them", ⁴you are not to take any notice of that prophet's words, or of that dreamer of a dream's words -- Adonai, your God, is testing you, to know whether you really love Adonai, your God, with all your heart and with all your soul. ⁵You are to follow Adonai, your God, fear Him, keep His commandments, pay attention to His voice, worship Him, and cling to Him. ⁶And that prophet, or that dreamer of a dream is to be put to death; because he spoke falsehood about Adonai, your God Who brought you out of the land of Egypt, and Who redeemed you from the house of bondage, to deflect you from the way in which Adonai, your God, commanded you to go; so shall you clear away the evil from among you. http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל
Sophiee1		#23	[-]
Posts: 11659 (01/09/09 10:54:49) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	dawn6773 wrote: Sophiee, from your answer, it would seem the answer to my question would be that these stories Yiddish, chassidic, and children's are about people dealing with HaShem's messengers. That maybe there was something for them to be tested with or a lesson that needed to be portrayed through these stories. I do know that some of the wacko stuff I saw in the past was from people working themselves up in a dither. That would be allowing themselves to be influenced by the yetzer hara, correct? The couple unexplainable things would be possibly tests from HaShem through messengers. Is this correct? (snip). Hi Dawn. Judaism, just like any civilization I've ever heard of, is full of folk tales. In these stories you'll find all kinds of outlandish things, including the golum. They aren't REAL. They are stories. There is evil in this world and that evil can be done TO us by other humans (murder, rape, etc.). We can be tempted to do evil by others, and some of these others may be angels (non-human) and some may be human. Keep in mind that the Hebrew word for angel is "melech" which really translates to 'messenger." G-d's messengers can be human or a breeze floating on the wind, a germ that causes cancer, a spirit that tries to encourage us to do the wrong thing -- but in the end if we do the wrong thing ti is OUR responsibility. Take the story in the Torah about G-d "hardening Pahroah's heart" against Moses. Did G-d change Pharoah's mind? Nope. Pharoah had free will! In this instance G-d simply gave Pharoah the internal feeling of strength (backbone) to do what he was INCLINED to do already, which was to deny the Jews the freedom to leave Egypt. Does that help clear things up? סופי And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
Sophiee1		#24	[-]
Posts: 11660 (01/09/09 11:06:03) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Zero wrote: Is there not even one thing in Judaism which pertains to spiritual warfare? Depends on what you mean. There is only one G-d. He created everything -- and that includes good and evil (read Isaiah 45:7). Some Chrstians seem to think that G-d is pretty weak. You think the fictional devil can tempt your god -- it is even in the Greek Text (GT). You think that because Adam and Chava (Eve) made a mistake that all of us are tainted with such a horrible sin that only the death of your man-god could wash it way. If that is what you mean by "spiritual warfare" then, no Judaism does not have even one thing that accepts that idea. The G-d of the Torah is omnipotent -- all powerful. He created everything and He controls everything. He has no enemies, and the thought that He could or would is patently ridiculous. So, no, G-d didn't screw up in the Garden of Eden by accidentally putting a tree there that messed up His whole creation from the beginning. G-d created man in His image -- meaning man has intelligence and the ability to grow spiritually. Man, unlike the angels who simply follow His will, can CHOOSE. Adam and Chava chose unwisely. There were ramifications to that. Each of us has that same ability to choose good over evil. The spiritual warfare that exists is INSIDE each of us. Will we follow the tree of life (Torah)? Or will we be tempted to the wrong path, and hurt not only ourselves but others? THAT is spiritual warfare and we are in it up to our necks. סופי And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
dawn6773		#25	[-]
Posts: 40 (01/09/09 11:38:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks Sophiee. It think I get it this time. The ability to choose is what makes us different from so many things. Taking steps to be healthy, deal wisely with our finances, our interactions with others all have a cause and effect relationship. Often in the church we heard that it was the devil or his helpers that brought the effect. Simply not true. We don't only have our choices affecting us, but others as well. Some would say where is the justice when someone suffers for no apparent reason. I guess that is where trusting HaShem comes in. He knows everyone better than we even know ourselves. He loves each of us more than we know. Unexplained suffering in the Christian's mind could not be from HaShem. Yet, it is strange to me that in their own teachings, they say that everything works together for good. To me it would seem that instead of looking for an evil entity to blame the suffering on, hard as it is, thank HaShem that He knows what He is doing and that it is truly for the best. Then work to avoid having difficulties happen again...teshuva, tefillah, tzedaka, and other steps toward protection. How else can someone find peace in situations like we saw in India recently? We would all walk around terrified that we are the next victim of an evil entity and that HaShem would do nothing to stop it. I also think of how my kids hate when I take privileges away or have them do something as a result of a bad choice. Often they don't understand why I am so adamant about learning to make good choices. One day, hopefully they will understand. I think that this is similar to what happens with us. As to Zero, I wonder if he is referring to Daniel, I believe it is. When he fasted for a time and it speaks of him fighting with angels. Been a while since I read the passage. I'd look it up, but the kids are getting restless and I need to wrap this up. Do you know of what I speak? Would this be a type of "warfare", if you will? I know that this is a passage that is used to encourage fasting and to prove that there is a battle between good and evil. It was used heavily in the charismatic circles in a voodoo manner, if you will. What would be a proper view on this?
Sophiee1		#26	[-]
Posts: 11661 (01/09/09 11:58:12) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	To answer your question about Daniel I'd need a reference point. Daniel lived in Babylon and there is debate among the sages as to whether or not he was a prophet. This is because Daniel had visions of angels, but did not communicate directly with G-d. The Book of Daniel is NOT prophecy. It is found in Writings, not Prophets. Daniel had visions, many of which he himself did not understand. If you can be more specific about your referencing Daniel I'll try to give a more detailed response. Why do bad things happen to good people? I have a great article for you! When Bad Things Happen Just as G-d is a creator, so too is man. Indeed, man is a co-creator with G-d, a partner in the completion and perfection of the world. To give man a chance to exercise this function, G-d has purposely left the world unfinished. It was created incomplete. That is the meaning of G-d resting at the end of the sixth day. God was surely not tired. "G-d rested" means that He stopped in mid-work. Why? So that man has the opportunity to have a hand in perfecting the world. G-d allows for sickness so man can play a role in inventing cures. G-d allows for famines so that man can have a part in inventing new methods of agriculture. G-d allows for droughts so that man can participate in bringing the world closer to its ideal state by inventing new irrigation methods and by building dams and desalinization plants. So the evil in the world only points up the work we still have to do. Evil is a manifestation of a world that is still incomplete, waiting for man to do his part and finish the job. We can't sit passively by hoping someone else will find a cure for cancer, or pick up the trash alongside a road. . . bad things happen so that we will try to stop them from happening to the next person (as well as ourselves). סופי And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
dawn6773		#27	[-]
Posts: 41 (01/09/09 14:21:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks for the article. Fills in the gaps. When I was putting the babies down, I thought of another "spiritual warfare" passage we used: Isaiah 58. The righteous fast was (v6-7) supposed to stop injustice, set the oppressed free, share with the hungry and give shelter to the wanderer. We were taught that when we fasted with this in mind, we could expect this to happen...no work on our part other than the fast. Something that bothered me and got me in trouble for saying it was "that's not HaShem's job". IMO, we fast for that to heighten our awareness of another's troubles. To cause us to move to act for another. Warfare - maybe in the way of preparing us to be a messenger in another's life. Maybe I am missing the point. But that is how I understand it. To fast and not act and then say that god will do it for us (calling this spiritual warfare) is silliness. To me this is stronger and has more impact than any "casting out of demons" that I saw ever had. I'll look up the passage I referred to in Daniel. Shabbat's coming quickly and I had better call it a day.
Sophiee1		#28	[-]
Posts: 11662 (01/09/09 14:47:52) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	A Rabbi once told me that we fast on certain holy days not to deny ourselves food and water, but because eating is a physical need and on certain days we are focusing on our spiritual needs. One less physical distraction to take us away from the spiritual. That made sense to me. There are 6 fast days (7 if you include the fast of the first born). The best known fast is for Yom Kippur, and the others all have to do with remembering a catastrophe (like Tisha B'Av). How can fasting make us more spiritual? Well, instead of focusing on your empty stomach we are supposed to be looking internally at ourselves. We're supposed to think about our lives, what we've done right and wrong -- and how we can be the righteous person, perfecting the world, that G-d made us to be. We are to contemplate and repent -- and by repent I don't mean just words, but a real intention to be a better person. (Think of Jonah 3:10 where it says that G-d saw the actions of the people. NOT their intentions, but their actions). Fasting by itself doesn't mean anything -- it is what you DO while you fast, and then how you implement those promises that matters (Ta'anit 22a). Remember that our evil intentions (yetzer hara) stem from our physical needs. By denying a physical need (for food) we are telling our yetzer hara that we are the master over it. We follow the mitzvot of the Torah (Yom Kippur) and our sages thus raising our yetzer tov (good inclinations). We are overcoming temptation rather than giving in to it -- thus becoming holier through our actions (the fasting itself, the repentence and then the actions that follow). Shabbat Shalom. סופי And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12 Last Edited By: Sophiee1 01/09/09 14:54:07. Edited 1 times.
JohnySkeptic	Power of Jesus	#29	[-]
Posts: 136 (01/10/09 21:01:46) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Zero- But Jesus said to Satan "You should not put the Lord your God to the test." The challenge was not about testing the power of G-d, but it is was verify your extraordinary claim which was Regardless no one, not even you is able to dispute that there is power in Jesus name So, in your mind, is it wrong to be skeptical of someone's claim? Wasn't it Jesus himself who promised that those who believe in him, would perform great miracles in his name Mark 16:17-18 17-And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18-They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Either this promise is fake one or there are no true Christians out there? since the so called "Christians" are only casting out imaginary "demons" but are unable empty hospitals or bother with dealing with snakes. Holy Spirit Power - The Anatomy Of A Failed Promise How about a more simpler task? Why don't you call on Jesus to unite his followers, since Christians can't seem to agree on any one important issue such as 1)Whether the Christian god is a trinity or not? 2)Whether Jesus was god or not? 3)The Status of the "OT" Law 3)Whether remarriage is a sin or not? 4)Whether Woman pastor should be allowed or not 5)Whether Christians will be raptured prior to the tribulation or after it 6)Whether unbelievers(including Jews) will be thrown in the lake of fire or even whether hell is a real place or not? Before you start claiming that those who believe your personal theological whims and preferences are not true Christian, I suggest you go to the CARM forum and try to unite the "true" christians in Jesus's name, since I am yet to see unity amongst Jesus followers. After all, Jesus himself said that people should not believe in him unless his followers display complete unity John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone(his immediate disciples), but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I(Jesus) in them, and thou(God) in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou(God) hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me. A Prayer Of Jesus That Failed
UriYosef		#30	[-]
Posts: 1697 (01/10/09 22:12:27) Director of Education Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Zero wrote: Jesus was tempted in a like manner when Satan dared him to flung himself down a cliff as angels would then come down "lest you dash your feet upon the ground". But Jesus said to Satan "You should not put the Lord your God to the test." This is rather humorous. You are not the mangod yeshu. I issued the challenge to you to see if you trust that your mangod will stop that train. So, you are hiding behind a fable from the Greek Text and are dodging the challenge, which indicates that you really do not trust that your mangod will stop the train. OK, then I have another challenge for you. Here is a passage from your Greei Text: Mark 16:15-18(KJV) - (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Now, read this passage carefully, since it supposedly quotes what your mangod has promised those who believe in him. I realize that a live Cobra snake is difficult to come by, but a bottle of Drano is probably on the shelf at a nearby supermarket or Home Depot. Purchase a bottle of Drano and pour a cup full of it, and then drink it. If what your mangod promises in v. 18, this will not harm you. Then, if that is really true, come back here and let us know that you are OK. UriYosef Our raison d'être: WHOSOEVER DESTROYS A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE IMPUTES [GUILT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD DESTROYED A COMPLETE WORLD; AND WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD. (Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, 37a) The fruits of our effort: The battle against spiritual terrorism is being won, one soul at a time!!! Last Edited By: UriYosef 01/10/09 22:15:49. Edited 1 times.
Zero		#31	[-]
Posts: 7 (01/11/09 04:24:33) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I do not feel that I am getting any straight answers from UriYosef except sarcastic remarks
dawn6773		#32	[-]
Posts: 43 (01/11/09 04:42:45) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Sophiee specifically (as we were discussing this), but anyone else feel free to jump in - Topic relevant to who we are and what we are to accomplish as people? Free people from lies that have bound them. I was with a couple friends this Shabbat who are also making this transition from Messy/C-an to understanding Judaism. This topic was brought up by one of these friends, as were the Daniel and Devarim passages. They were tripping he and his wife up. Hope you don't mind if I share this with them as they are also trying to take out the garbage and refurnish with the truth. I looked at the two passages we spoke of. You mentioned Devarim 32:17. I see the word "shedim" there. In context, it seems to be speaking of Israel's falling into idolatry after having gained wealth. So, shedim are idols? Then as you progress to vs 24 you see HaShem's response to this idolatry. Stone's translates it interestingly. In HaShem's discipline, He would send "bloating of famine, battles of flaming demons, cutting down by the noontime demon, and the teeth of beasts shall I dispatch against them, with the venom of those that creep on the earth." I think these are messengers to bring teshuva. But what is this? Shed/shedim is not used here? Makes me think of the plagues. Also, being cut down at noontime, sounds like an early death. Am I way out there? I didn't read the Chumash - probably should have before coming here. In our discussion this Shabbat, Isaiah 34:14 was brought up. Stone's transliterates the word "lilith" and puts a comment there from Rashi that this is a name of a female demon or an nocturnal bird, as per Ibn Ezra. I know that this was discussed in another thread. Where can I find that? The Daniel passage I mentioned that was used regarding "spiritual warfare" is Daniel 10. In the charismatic circle I was with, we used this as a model for dealing with difficult things, for a lack of better words. For things that didn't go away with prayer. 21 day fasts and realizing you are battling with ungodly angels in hopes to get a break through with good news were something we did based on this chapter. Looking at it now, that is not what it is saying at all. v 13 was used to show what we thought we were battling - we called them spirits over different nations. Powers opposite of HaShem wrecking havoc of all sorts. Now, help me here, as I understand it, this is "the angel that guides the destiny of Persia." (Stone's quoting Rashi). Makes me think of a few parashot ago when Yaakov wrestled with Esau's angel. Back to Daniel, basically Cyrus wanted to understand a vision and Daniel, a righteous man (I believe this is an important factor) was fasting to get an interpretation. For some reason, this angel made it difficult. But, the answer did come. This is not a passage of battling evil spirits, but being persistent to receive an answer. Correct? I guess in a way one could call it spiritual warfare, but absolutely not the way I was taught.
dawn6773		#33	[-]
Posts: 44 (01/11/09 04:56:29) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	UriYosef wrote: OK, then I have another challenge for you. Here is a passage from your Greei Text: Mark 16:15-18(KJV) - (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. Now, read this passage carefully, since it supposedly quotes what your mangod has promised those who believe in him. I realize that a live Cobra snake is difficult to come by, but a bottle of Drano is probably on the shelf at a nearby supermarket or Home Depot. Purchase a bottle of Drano and pour a cup full of it, and then drink it. If what your mangod promises in v. 18, this will not harm you. Then, if that is really true, come back here and let us know that you are OK. UriYosef Wow - Uri, you are brave. I hope no one comes around accusing you of encouraging suicide. I know you are being facetious...but, yikes This GT passage you quoted is a controversial passage in the church. Among the many churches I attended (I attended about a dozen different churches of differing denominations), only one even considered this passage to be valid: a charismatic one. Surprise. surprise. surprise. Most (if not all) GTs will state that this was added at a later time and is not authoritative. The one that I attended that accepted this passage, would also say that if you were stupid enough to test their god that way, you would die and it would be your fault.
Sophiee1		#34	[-]
Posts: 11664 (01/11/09 11:49:41) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	dawn6773 wrote: Sophiee specifically (as we were discussing this), but anyone else feel free to jump in - (snip) You mentioned Devarim 32:17. I see the word "shedim" there. In context, it seems to be speaking of Israel's falling into idolatry after having gained wealth. So, shedim are idols? Shedim are false gods. Idols are simply statues of false gods and demi-gods (such as saints). dawn6773 wrote: Then as you progress to vs 24 you see HaShem's response to this idolatry. (snip) This parsha is Moshe Rabinu's warning to the Jewish people. It is a lesson (Devarim 32:2). dawn6773 wrote: In our discussion this Shabbat, Isaiah 34:14 was brought up. Stone's transliterates the word "lilith" and puts a comment there from Rashi that this is a name of a female demon or an nocturnal bird, as per Ibn Ezra. I know that this was discussed in another thread. Where can I find that? Lilith as the first woman (prior to Chava/Eve) is found in midrash aggudah -- homily. Stories with a moral intent. The word לילית translates to a nocturnal bird as Ibn Ezra wrote. dawn6773 wrote: The Daniel passage I mentioned that was used regarding "spiritual warfare" is Daniel 10. (snip) This is not a passage of battling evil spirits, but being persistent to receive an answer. Correct? Remember that chapters are a Chrstian invention. Daniel 10 and 11 are entwined. The Jewish sage Rambam saw the "stumbling block" of Daniel 11:14 as being Chrstianity -- the Roman Kingdom which still is in place through Chrstianity. (It) is written [Daniel 11:35], "Some of the wise men will stumble, to purge, to refine, and to clarify, until the appointed time, for it is yet to come." "Jsus of Nazareth who aspired to be the Moshiach and was executed by the court was also spoken of in Daniel's visions [Daniel:1114], "The renegades among your people shall exalt themselves in an attempt to fulfill the vision, but they shall stumble." "Can there be a greater stumbling block than [Chrstianity]? All the prophets spoke of Moshiach as the redeemer of Israel and their savior, who would gather their dispersed ones and strengthen their [observance of] the mitzvos. In contrast [the founder of Chrstianity] caused the Jews to be slain by the sword, their remnants to be scattered and humiliated, the Torah to be altered, and the majority of the world to err and serve a god other than the L-rd." סופי And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
dawn6773		#35	[-]
Posts: 45 (01/11/09 12:09:36) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Thanks. I think I have it now. I've read so many things as of late regarding your comment on Daniel. Torah was given to the Jews. The arrogance of other nations to tell Jews how to interpret their writings is sad to see. Thanks for helping those of us who stumbled around in these crazy teaching to dig out of it and learn humility.
ProfBenTziyyon		#36	[-]
Posts: 1627 (01/11/09 13:15:38) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Sophiee1 wrote: The word לילית translates to a nocturnal bird as Ibn Ezra wrote.... Specifically, the Hebrew word לִילִית refers to the "horned owl", a large species of owl having horn-like feathers over the ears (Bubo virginianus). http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל
JohnySkeptic		#37	[-]
Posts: 137 (01/11/09 16:36:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	I realize that a live Cobra snake is difficult to come by, but a bottle of Drano is probably on the shelf at a nearby supermarket or Home Depot. Purchase a bottle of Drano and pour a cup full of it, and then drink it. If what your mangod promises in v. 18, this will not harm you. Then, if that is really true, come back here and let us know that you are OK. I guess a more simpler and beneficial one would be if he can actually go to the terminally ill ward of any hospital and empty it out in the name of Jesus?
UriYosef		#38	[-]
Posts: 1698 (01/11/09 22:42:29) Director of Education Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	JohnySkeptic wrote: I guess a more simpler and beneficial one would be if he can actually go to the terminally ill ward of any hospital and empty it out in the name of Jesus? I agree, and I am sure that he will dodge this one as well. UriYosef Our raison d'être: WHOSOEVER DESTROYS A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE IMPUTES [GUILT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD DESTROYED A COMPLETE WORLD; AND WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD. (Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, 37a) The fruits of our effort: The battle against spiritual terrorism is being won, one soul at a time!!!
UriYosef		#39	[-]
Posts: 1699 (01/11/09 22:56:47) Director of Education Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Zero wrote: I do not feel that I am getting any straight answers from UriYosef except sarcastic remarks Is that so? Look back at Post #18, where you made the following statement: Zero wrote: There are numerous accounts of Jesus and his disciples delivering Israelites from evil spirits in the gospels. Do you regard these parts as fiction? If so on what grounds? Did you read the serious response I gave you in Post #19. It is only when you started to insist on quoting examples from the Greek Text, the problems with which are addressed at the links I provided for you in Post #19, that I realized you have ignored the serious responses (mine and those of other individuals) to your statements. The challenges that have been issued to you are really "tongue in cheek", since those of us who have issued them know the standard Christian responses to them, responses that attempt to dodge the issue that the accounts in the Greek Text are questionable. UriYosef Our raison d'être: WHOSOEVER DESTROYS A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE IMPUTES [GUILT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD DESTROYED A COMPLETE WORLD; AND WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD. (Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, 37a) The fruits of our effort: The battle against spiritual terrorism is being won, one soul at a time!!!
pninah1		#40	[-]
Posts: 2107 (01/11/09 22:59:03) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	UriYosef wrote: JohnySkeptic wrote: I guess a more simpler and beneficial one would be if he can actually go to the terminally ill ward of any hospital and empty it out in the name of Jesus? I agree, and I am sure that he will dodge this one as well. UriYosef when one knows that something is false, they have no choice but to either dodge or admit error. which will it be?

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