Arkm7.
Well, I do not pretend to be a Teachher of The Torah because I am working on its Study... : )
I will express my idea and logic as simple as possible into english...I hope you have had understood about what I have said on "G-dly Words and Evil
Words". In Potentia the Goodness is already given in The Torah. The Torah is completely an Expression, BY or OF WORDS, of Higher Spiritual Beings,
Phrofets as Abraham, Moshe...Words, Ideas, Mitzvoths which pretend to bring a High Spiritual Status to all Mankind. The Torah brings Moral Lessons, Deeper
Meanings or Lessons that must be discovered as Kabbalistic have already made. You can think The Commandments; "Believe in One G-d", "Love your
fellow", "...Improve Yorself..." is not a Messiahnic Word or Idea, but up to me it is, because The Messiah To Come HAS TO APPLY ALL OF THEM
(Ideas, Moral Lessons and Mitzvoths). So, in Potentia the Ability and The Opportunity to bring a Messiah is in The Torah. But our obligation or duty is to
Perform all of Them, our Obligation is Emulate to G-d, in this way he will be Proud of us, and will make us worthy of The Messiah.
From this viewpoint each of us when performing properly a G-dly Idea or Word or Lesson is a small messiah... just an opinion Arikm 7 ...
I hope you have understood my idea.. : )
Did Jews intentionally revise prophecies in the Torah to "hide" the truth of Jesus as the messiah
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 Yosef |
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Posts: 15 (03/22/09 12:30:56) |
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Yosef |
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Posts: 16 (03/22/09 14:11:41) |
Sophie.
Thank you fo your response, really! But let me one more question about...my worry is about when can we know we are before a Messiahnic Period, A G-dly Word?, because knowing it we are prevented on falling through false phrofets... It is said on Issaiah 42.1ff ...My spirit upon him so he can bring forth justice to the nations. He will not shout nor raise his voice, nor make his voice heard in the street (...) but he will administer justice in thruth (...) Later is said on verse 6; (...) I have called you with righteousness (...) Later is said on Jeremiah 23.5-6.; Behold days are coming -the word of Hashem- when I will establish a rightheous sprout from David; a King will reing and prosper and he will administer justice and righteousness in the land. In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. (...) Until here the most characteristics about The Messiah is about His Righteousness and Justice performing, both. And that he must come from King David, so must be a Jew... So the question is; if Messiah is goning to come through Righteousness, and this Virtue being applied from differents viewpoints -BECAUSE NOBODY HAS THE SAME IDEA ABOUT RIGHTEOUSNESS AND JUSTICE- when is possible to know what is the Right One Messiah, moreoer about he will come froma Davinic Dinasty?. Up to me, if I do interpret the verses right, The Messiah only will come if we are at first righteous, is it right? And when you Know a Word is G-dly? Pd. I know I do have a lot of questions into my conversion process... : ) Thak you. |
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Posts: 1863 (03/22/09 14:16:10) |
Arikm7 wrote:
3. There is also reference to King-Messiah in the Bil'am passage, where Bil'am prophesies about two "messiahs" − the first messiah he speaks about is David who rescued Yisrael from their enemies, and the other is the one who will arise from among David's descendants and who will rescue Yisrael in the Last Times. http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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Sophiee1 |
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Posts: 11994 (03/22/09 14:45:21) Moderator |
Yosef wrote:I take it you didn't actually BOTHER to read the posts in the thread I gave you? If you had you wouldn't have written this nonsense. The messiah will be a tzeddek -- this means Torah observant, nu? He must indeed come not only from King David's line, but also King Solmon's line. You say NOBODY HAS THE SAME IDEA ABOUT RIGHTEOUSNESS AND JUSTICE but the Torah tells us clearly what these are and how to be such a person. Furthermore, you ask " when can we know we are before a Messiahnic Period, A G-dly Word?,"? That is also answered in the thread I linked to: there will be world peace, the world will know G-d and all the Jews will return to Israel. It will be EXTREMELY OBVIOUS. Kindly READ responses before posting again as it is a waste of your time and mine. (From that thread): Written by R' Kaplan (Z"L) this article explains who the messiah will be and how to recognize him. Reading this should explain for non-Jews why we have rejected false messiahs (including Jsus) and still await the real one. Quote: The final Messiah will be a normal human being, born of human parents. It is thus possible that he is already born. Similarly, the Messiah will be mortal. He will eventually die and bequeath his kingdom to his son or his successor. Tradition states that he will be a direct descendant of King David, son of Jesse, as it its written, "A shoot will come forth from the stock of Jesse, and a branch will grow from his roots" (Isaiah 11:1). Likewise, in our prayers, we ask, "May the shoot of David flourish," and "May the memory of Mashiach ben David rise up... before You." There are numerous Jewish families today that can trace their ancestry directly back to King David. The final Messiah will be the greatest leader and political genius that the world has ever seen. He will likewise be the wisest man ever to have lived. He will put these extraordinary talents to use to precipitate a worldwide revolution which will bring perfect social justice to humanity, and influence all people to serve G-d with a pure heart. The Messiah will also achieve prophecy and become the greatest prophet in history, second only to Moses. Special Qualities The prophet Isaiah described six qualities with which the Messiah will be blessed: "G-d's spirit will rest upon him, (1) the spirit of wisdom and (2) understanding, (3) the spirit of counsel and (4) might, (5) the spirit of knowledge and (6) fear of G-d" (Isaiah 11:2). In all these qualities, the Messiah will excel all other human beings. The Messiah will see through the sham and hypocrisy of this world. He will have the power to sense a person's spirit, thereby knowing his entire spiritual record, and judging whether he is guilty or not. Regarding this power, it is further written, "He will be filled with the spirit of the fear of G-d; he will not judge by what his eyes see, or decide by what his ears hear" (Isaiah 11:3). This is one sign by which the Messiah will be recognized. However, similar to the gift of prophecy, this power will only develop gradually. The Messiah will use this power to determine to which tribe every Jew belongs. He will then divide the Land of Israel into land inheritances with each tribe receiving its portion. He will begin with the tribe of Levi, determining the legitimacy of each Kohen and Levite. Regarding this the prophet said, "He will purify the children of Levi, and refine them like gold and silver, to become bearers of an offering to G-d in righteousness" (Malachi 3:3). Goals and Mission The mission of the Messiah is six-fold. His primary task is to cause all the world to return to G-d and His teachings. He will also restore the royal dynasty to the descendants of David. He will oversee the rebuilding of Jerusalem, including the Third Temple. He will gather the Jewish people to the Land of Israel. He will reestablish the Sanhedrin, the religious supreme court and legislature of the Jewish people. This is a necessary condition for the rebuilding of the Third Temple, as it is written, "I will restore your judges as at first, and your counselors as in the beginning; afterward, you will be called the city of righteousness, the faithful city. Zion shall be redeemed with justice, and those who return to her, with righteousness" (Isaiah 1:26-27). Such a Sanhedrin would also be able to formally recognize the Messiah as the king of Israel. He will restore the sacrificial system as well as the practices of the Sabbatical Year (Shmitah) and the Jubilee Year (Yovel). Therefore, as Maimonides states, "If there arises a ruler from the family of David, immersed in the Torah and its commandments like David his ancestor, following both the Written and Oral Torah, who leads Israel back to the Torah, strengthening the observance of its laws and fighting G-d's battles, then we may assume that he is the Messiah. If he is further successful in rebuilding the Temple on its original site and gathering the dispersed of Israel, then his identity as Messiah is a certainty." Worldwide Influence As the Messiah's powers develop, so will his fame. The world will begin to recognize his profound wisdom and come to seek his advice. He will then teach all mankind to live in peace and follow G-d's teachings. The prophets thus foretold, "It shall come to pass in the end of days, that the mountain of G-d's house shall be set over all other mountains and lifted high above the hills; and all nations shall come streaming to it. Many people shall come and say, 'Come, let us go up to G-d's mountain, to the house of Israel's G-d. He (the Messiah) will teach us His ways, and we will walk in His paths.' For Torah shall go forth out of Zion, and G-d's word from Jerusalem. And he (the Messiah) will judge between nations and decide between peoples. And they shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither will they practice war anymore." (Isaiah 2:2-4, Micah 4:1-3) In the Messianic Era, many non-Jews will feel compelled to convert to Judaism as the prophet foretold, "I will then give all peoples a pure tongue, that they may call in the Name of G-d, and all serve Him in one manner" (Zephaniah 3:9). Once the Messiah has revealed himself, however, converts will no longer be accepted. Still, Jerusalem will become the center of worship and instruction for all mankind. G-d thus told His prophet, "I will return to Zion and I will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem, and Jerusalem will be called the City of Truth and the Mountain of the G-d of Hosts, the Holy Mountain" (Zechariah 8:3). This will begin the period when the teachings of G-d will be supreme over all mankind, as it is written, "For HaShem of Hosts will be King in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem. [He will reveal His] Glory in the presence of His wise elders" (Isaiah 24:23). All peoples will then come to Jerusalem to seek G-d. The prophet Zechariah describes this graphically when he says, "Many people and mighty nations will come and seek the G-d of Hosts in Jerusalem... In those days, ten people out of all the nations will take hold of the corner of the garment of every Jew and say, 'We will go with you, for we have heard that G-d is with you'" (Zechariah 8:22-23). In Jerusalem, the Jewish people will thus be established as the spiritual and moral teachers of all mankind. At that time, Jerusalem will become the spiritual capital of the world. In the Messianic Era, all people will believe in G-d and proclaim His Unity. The prophet thus foretold, "G-d will be King over all the earth; on that day G-d will be One and His Name One: (Zechariah 14:9). Peace and Harmony In the Messianic Era, jealousy and competition will cease to exist, for all good things will be most plentiful and all sorts of delicacies will be as common as dust. Men will no longer wage or prepare for war, as the prophet foretold, "Nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither will they practice war any more" (Isaiah 2:4). In the Messianic Era, all nations will live peacefully together. Similarly, people of all dispositions will live together in harmony. The prophet spoke of this allegorically when he said, "The wolf will dwell with the lamb; the leopard will lie down with the kid; the calf, the young lion, and the fatling together, will be led by a young child. The cow will graze with the bear; their young will lie down together; the lion will eat straw like the ox" (Isaiah 11:6-7). Although the Messiah will influence and teach all mankind, his main mission will be to bring the Jewish people back to G-d. The prophet thus said, "For the children of Israel will remain for many days with no king and no prince... Afterward, the children of Israel will return and seek G-d their L-rd and David their king; they will come in awe to G-d and His goodness, in the end of days" (Hosea 3:4-5). Similarly, "My servant David will be king over them; they will all have one shepherd; they will also follow My ordinances and observe My laws" (Ezekiel 37:24). As society reaches toward perfection and the world becomes increasingly G-dly, humanity's main occupation will only be to know G-d. The truth will be revealed and the entire world will acknowledge that the Torah is G-d's true teaching. This is what the prophet meant when he foretold, "The earth will be full of the knowledge of G-d, as the waters cover the sea" (Isaiah 11:9). Similarly, all mankind will attain the highest levels of Divine Inspiration without any difficulty whatsoever. G-d thus promised through His prophet, "It shall come to pass afterward that I will pour out My spirit upon all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy" (Joel 3:1). Although man will still have free will in the Messianic Age, he will have every inducement to do good and follow G-d's teachings. It will be as if the power of evil were totally annihilated. This is what the prophet predicted, "I will place My Torah inside of them, and inscribe it upon their hearts... A person will no longer teach his friend and his brother saying, 'Know G-d!' For all of them will know Me, great and small alike" (Jeremiah 31:32-33). The prophet likewise said in G-d's name, "I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh" (Ezekiel 36:26). That is, the inclination toward good will be strengthened in man to such an extent that he will not be drawn after the physical at all. Rather, he will constantly strengthen himself spiritually and incline toward serving G-d and following His Torah. This is the meaning of the Torah's promise that, "G-d will circumcise the foreskins of your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you will love G-d your L-rd with all your heart and soul" (Deut. 30:6). Religious Practice The Messiah will not change our religion in any way. All the commandments will be binding in the Messianic Era. Nothing will be added to or subtracted from the Torah. There is an opinion that the only books of the Bible which will be regularly studied in the Messianic Era will be the Five Books of Moses and the Scroll of Esther. The reason for this is that all the other teachings of the prophets can be derived from the Torah, and since the Messiah will reveal all the meanings of the Torah to perfection, the prophetic writings will no longer be needed. The sacrificial system will be restored in the Messianic Era. However, the only private sacrifices which will be accepted will be the thanksgiving offering. Since man's heart will have been circumcised, the desire to sin will no longer exist, and the private sacrifices which are brought to atone for sins will no longer be needed. Similarly, the only prayers which will be necessary will be prayers of thanksgiving. Our prophets and sages did not long for the Messianic Era in order that they might rule the world and dominate others. They did not desire that the nations should honor them, or that they should be able to eat, drink and be merry. They only wanted one thing, and that was to be free to involve themselves in the Torah and its wisdom. They wanted nothing to disturb or distract them, in order that they should be able to strive to become worthy of the life in the World to Come.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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Yosef |
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Posts: 17 (03/22/09 16:06:50) |
Sophie.
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Arikm7 |
Professor.. Thank you! | ||
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Posts: 721 (03/22/09 17:25:49) |
Professor:
Thank you! Actually, now that you have mentioned it, I do remember reading and learning about the "anointing oil". And after I submitted my comments to Yosef, I had a thought "but what about Bilaam's prophecy?". Thanks for bringing this out. I am obviously neither a Hebrew scholar nor a Torah scholar and so I thank you for your assistance! Please forgive my ignorance. I'm still a little concerned about Yosef's terminology and ideology on this. But again.. THANK YOU. I deeply appreciate your wisdom and erudition. |
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Yosef |
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Posts: 18 (03/23/09 09:39:39) |
AriKm.
You are funny, I do think... : ) in a good sense. Your last reply let me very worry...Well, as a student on Torah about The Anoiting Oil and Bilam´s prophecy I have to read about it. But I do have my own vision on Israel, The Messiah and all about it, I have to say that I see Israel living for ever and being a Moral, Mistic and G-dly Nation. Withouth about it, Israel would be like another gentile nation. So, I think Israel is making The Messiah possible although many israelites are waiting for Him / It. And altough it seems is not possible bacuse always is on war, I must say, as far as I do know, that through extreme experiences comes the Transformation of Mind and Hert, through extreme experiences comes new perspectives and one can knows him/ her / selfs much better. Up to me be focused, but I am not a Rabbi, on the ability to perform Prophecy, which in Transpersonal Phsicolgy is named "Modified State-Mind" which allows us to see anoher perspective of Reality/ Live through a much more engloved vision... But, do not be worry about my terminology...just are opinions of a seeker´s G-d : ). I do not have wisdom, i do have just a litte bit given through my experiences and interpretations... : ) Thank you for your strectched me... : ) |
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Dannyil |
Who changed what? | ||
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Posts: 64 (04/29/09 14:37:17) |
Well its simple
Lets assume that the Torah is lying and the Xian texts got it right! So we would expect minimal variance in solid facts, and in Torah manuscripts wide variance? Take for example Acts 7:14 How many people went down to Egypt? 66 according to the GT So lets see, Xian sources such as the LXX present this in a number of places, such as the end of Genesis and begining of Exodus. But here is the clincher, in the LXX a quick look at Deut 10:22 you will find that 70 people went down to Egypt. Now in the Torah you will find that no-where is there any mention of 66 people going down to Egypt, only 70. Now you can look at the manuscripts there are no variants, but the GT there are many variants. Now someone is lying, who is it the Torah or the GT? I think its the GT and LXX. -D
Deut 4:15, Deut 4:35-39, Num 23:19, Deut 24:16, Eze 37, Psa 119 - now go and read it...!
Torah True Judaism |
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UriYosef |
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Posts: 1777 (04/29/09 15:12:48) Director of Education |
Danny,
The number of people who went down to Egypt is noted in the Torah as 70 on three occasions - at Genesis 46:27, Exodus 1:5, and Deuteronomy 10:22. Aside of the fact that the GT got it wrong, the LXX, which is a Greek translation by Christians of the Jewish Scriptures (as distinct from the "Original Septuagint", which was a 3rd-century BCE translation into Koine Greek of only the Torah by 72 bi-lingual Rabbis), has it as 75 people at Genesis 46:27 and Exodus 1:5, and, as you indicated, 70 people who went down to Egypt at Deuteronomy 10:22. This, in and of itself, testifies to the fact that the LXX is the product of Christian translators who simply were unaware of the third instance, at Deuteronomy 10:22, in their attempted revisionism of the Torah. Of course, there is plenty of additional evidence available that proves the LXX to be the product of Christian translators, and this explains the various inconsistent and mistranslated texts therein. UriYosef
Our raison d'être:
WHOSOEVER DESTROYS A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE IMPUTES [GUILT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD DESTROYED A COMPLETE WORLD; AND WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD. (Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, 37a) The fruits of our effort: The battle against spiritual terrorism is being won, one soul at a time!!!
Last Edited By: UriYosef
04/29/09 16:08:32.
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Sophiee1 |
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Posts: 12130 (04/29/09 15:48:28) Moderator |
Dannyil wrote:Dannyiil even the Chrstians knew they didn't get it right! The MODERN Septuagint (LXX) is a product of the church. It little matters who first translated Prophets or Writings into Greek because there was no quality control mechanism and the Greek versions became very corrupt over time -- which the church fathers complained about loudly and longly -- from Origen to Jerome. The later translations were done by persons unknown without an "audit trail" and they became more and more corrupt overy time -- primarily through Xian scribes. The "modern" Septuagint / LXX is a Xian work of unknown origin, NOT a Jewish translation. Over time the Greek translations (now all called Septuagint after the 70 original translators of Torah, (even though they only translated the Five Books of Moses) became corrupted. The Jews stopped using it altogether and by the 3rd century CE the Xians themselves became very concerned at the corrupted nature of the Septuagint. As a result the Xians stopped using the Septuagint by the 5th century, preferring to go back to the Hebrew original and re-translate it into other languages. Here are some statements by church leaders on the fact that the Septuagint as they knew it (and we know it today) is not reliable: Origen, an early church father (died 232 CE) tried to piece together a decent translation by putting 6 different versions side by side (called the Hexapla). Here is what HE says about how bad the Septuagint had become Quote:The point of quoting Origen is to show that whoever the original translators were of the rest of the bible the various Greek versions became very corrupt over time. The Xians themselves realized this -- as Origen states. Then we have St. Jerome (early 5th century) who decided to re-translate from the MT rather than rely on the Septuagint saying: Quote:These are the men who began what the Chrstians today rely upon as their own bible, and they certainly believed we Jews had the original, uncorrupted text. What do you think of the King James? They also said the LXX was corrupt. "It is certain, that that Translation was not so sound and so perfect, but it needed in many places correction; and who had been so sufficient for this work as the Apostles or Apostolic men? . . .If Origen, St. Jerome and the KJV translators say the LXX is corrupt, who are you to disagree? 
In an earlier post UriYosef wrote that there is ample evidence available right within today's LXX that shows it is not the product of Jewish scholars. Let me (UriYosef) cite some examples: - The Masoretic Text speaks of seventy (70) people going to Egypt in Joseph's party in three places - Genesis 46:27, Exodus 1:5, and Deuteronomy 10:22. Today's LXX has seventy-five (75) at Genesis 46:27 and Exodus 1:5, and seventy (70) at Deuteronomy 10:22. Would 72 learned bi-lingual Rabbis make such an error? - The Babylonian Talmud (Tractate Megilah, Folio 9a,b) records fifteen (15) phrases which the Jewish scholars translated in a unique fashion, and which deviate from the (later) Masoretic Text - Genesis 1:1, 1:26, 2:2, 5:2, 11:7, 18:12, 49:6; Exodus 4:20, 12:40, 24:5, 24:11; Leviticus 11:6; Numbers 16:15; and Deuteronomy 4:19, 17:3. Today's LXX has only two (2) of these) - Genesis 2:2 and Exodus 12:40. Why would a Jewish translator leave out most of those 15 phrases? -The prevalent dialect of Greek spoken in the mid-3rd century BCE was Koin Greek, which was the dialect of Greek into which the Original Septuagint (the Torah) was translated. Today's LXX is written in a more modern dialect of the Greek language than Koin Greek. This clearly indicates a much later date than mid-3rd century BCE. These examples, coupled with the common mistranslations used by missionaries and the variations not only in the canonical arrangements of the LXX vs. the Hebrew Bible, but also the variations in chapter&verse numbering (which came later in both cases), are concrete evidence that today's LXX is not the product of Jewish scholars regardless who produced the translations of Prophets and Writings before the Common Era.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Posts: 1948 (04/30/09 10:51:27) |
Dannyil wrote:
The count of 66 souls is the number of Ya'akov's descendants who set out with him from Eretz Yisrael, i.e. it does not include Yosef and his two sons M'nasheh & Efrayim − who were already in Mitzrayim − or Yocheved who "was born in Mitzrayim" according to B'midbar 26:59, but it is noted on on folio 12a of Treatise Sotah that לֵידָתָהּ בְּמִצְרַֽיִם וְאֵין הוֹרָתָהּ בְּמִצְרַֽיִם "she was born in Mitzrayim, but she was not conceived there". So far as I am aware, the GG is silent on the matter of how many were in Ya'akov's household that migrated to Egypt and, as Uri told you, the LXX that has ἑβδομήκοντα πέντε (seventy-five) and πέντε καὶ ἑβδομήκοντα ("five and seventy") in place of seventy in B'réshιt 46:27 and Sh'mot 1:5 respectively − but nevertheless retains ἑβδομήκοντα (seventy) in D'varim 10:22. http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל
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wheelz03 |
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Posts: 24 (05/07/09 05:51:54) |
The "virgin" in Isaiah 7:14…. "almah"…the "young woman as veiled" refers spiritually to Wisdom….the pure Wisdom of G-d which is hidden and yet to be revealed…untainted by man's understanding of the Scriptures. Wisdom is personified as a woman in Proverbs….she is shown as a mother, a sister and a wife.
(Prov 7:4 ) Say unto wisdom, Thou art my sister; and call understanding thy kinswoman:
The matriarchs are also symbolic of spiritual Wisdom….Rachel, Sarah, Rebekah, and even Deborah (who called herself a mother in Israel.) We are to say to Wisdom "you are my sister" in much the same way Abraham called his wife Sarah his sister in Genesis 20:2. Isaac also called his wife Rebekah his sister in Genesis 26:7. Rebekah, a sister, was to become a mother of a great nation. We are to be born of heavenly Wisdom…who is a "mother" to us all.
This Wisdom is hidden…like a "garden enclosed"….like a shut up spring….like a fountain sealed. The Scriptures hide her.
(Song 4:12) A garden shut up is my sister, my bride; a spring shut up, a fountain sealed.
She has been hidden from man…behind the surface reading of the Scriptures. She is "black"….hidden…"as the tents of Kedar"....as the covering of darkness (Kedar) as stated in Song of Songs:
(Song 1:5) I am black, but comely, O ye daughters of Jerusalem, as the tents of Kedar, as the curtains of Solomon.
It is no coincidence that Moses married a woman from "Cush"….she is symbolic of Wisdom who is hidden from mankind….yet she will be revealed as a wife...as mother to us all…Moses will "speak" plainly with the spiritual Wisdom of G-d so that we may understand what was written:
(Num 12:8 ) with him do I speak mouth to mouth, even manifestly, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of HaShem doth he behold; wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against My servant, against Moses?'
Sarah, who is symbolic of Wisdom, dwelt in a tent….in a covering…Wisdom is covered until the appointed time.
(Gen 18:9) And they said unto him, Where is Sarah thy wife? And he said, Behold, in the tent.
Rebekah took a veil and covered herself when she met Isaac (Genesis 24:65.)
Wisdom has suffered as Rachel…who wept for her children. "They were not" because we have not listened to her....and the Messiah is hidden from our understanding just as Joseph was apart in Egypt away from Jacob and Rachel and presumed dead.
(Jer 31:15) Thus saith HaShem: A voice is heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping, Rachel weeping for her children; she refuseth to be comforted for her children, because they are not.
But her work will be rewarded:
16 Thus saith HaShem: Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears; for thy work shall be rewarded, saith HaShem; and they shall come back from the land of the enemy.
Wisdom, the virtuous woman, will be rewarded for her work:
(Prov 31:31) Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
Jesus being born to Mary, a young woman, was a literal, outward sign that reflected a soon-to-be much deeper, spiritual fulfillment of the prophecy….we are to be born of heavenly Wisdom by the will of G-d who reveals the Word to us through the Messiah. "Mary" means bitterness…Wisdom weeps for her children...just as Rachel. Rachel is a symbol for Wisdom...the higher wisdom…she was beautiful and favored over the other wife who is "weak-eyed"...Leah…those things that we read and understand on the surface of the Scriptures...the lower wisdom. Rachel's first son was named "Joseph" because she knew G-d would add another son. It is no coincidence that Jesus' father was also named Joseph….for G-d will add another son of Wisdom…a people born of spiritual Wisdom….and she will be comforted from her bitterness. But it has been a hard labor…just as Rachel had while giving birth to Benjamin. Jesus had forewarned of the many troubles that would come…that they would be the beginning of "birth pangs." Wisdom will give birth….and there will be a time of rejoicing among the people of G-d:
(Micah 5:3) Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel.
"Rachel", symbolic of Wisdom, will give birth to "Benjamin"…a people, who with heavenly Wisdom, speak the words that they hear the Messiah speak. The Messiah is hidden until we hear "Benjamin"….who has a mouth that speaks the Truth. We cannot see the Messiah without "Benjamin:"
(Gen 44:23) And thou saidst unto thy servants, Except your youngest brother come down with you, ye shall see my face no more. Benjamin's stone is the "jasper"....translated "he has a mouth." The silver cup of Joseph (the Messiah) was found in the
"mouth" of Benjamin's sack.
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Sophiee1 |
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Posts: 12158 (05/07/09 06:26:40) Moderator |
Kindly read the forum rules about non-Jews teaching Judaism. Your entire post is one big error filled "teaching."
Almah has nothing to do with virginity, and neither does Isaiah 7:14.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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UriYosef |
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Posts: 1792 (05/07/09 10:23:35) Director of Education |
wheelz03 wrote:I've been in the "counter-missionary" business for quite a few years by now, and thought that I've seen & heard just about everything that Christian apologists and missionaries have conjured up to tty to defend their false beliefs and convince us Jews that we've got it all wrong. I must admit, this is a new one on me. It seems there exist no limits or bounds to Christian revisionist hutspah! I now issue a warning to you, echoing what Sophie recommended: Read the forum rulues. You've posted here before and should know them. Next time you try to "teach" what the Hebrew Bible means, your post will be deleted. Repeated violations will get you banned. UriYosef
Our raison d'être:
WHOSOEVER DESTROYS A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE IMPUTES [GUILT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD DESTROYED A COMPLETE WORLD; AND WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD. (Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, 37a) The fruits of our effort: The battle against spiritual terrorism is being won, one soul at a time!!!
Last Edited By: UriYosef
05/07/09 10:29:25.
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Posts: 1973 (05/07/09 17:01:39) |
I would like "wheelz03" to tell us where he/she learned to speak Hebrew? And would he/she be willing to parse the word הָרָה in Y'shayahu 7:14 for us? These christians are always concentrating on the wrong word. http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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wheelz03 |
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Posts: 25 (05/11/09 15:40:12) |
I apologize for angering the board.
ProfBenTziyyon, I am a "he" and I do not speak or read Hebrew. My post had nothing to do with the meaning of the word הָמְלַעָה but had everything to do with the "young woman" being symbolic for Wisdom who gives birth to her children after being barren….just as Sarah was barren…just as Rachel was barren….just as Hannah…just as Rebekah was barren. ProfBenTziyyon, indeed, the "young woman" is pregnant, and will give birth to a son (people) who have the secret wisdom of the Torah that is to be revealed…so let's rejoice! The barren sings….just as Hannah did...wisdom sings.
Is there not a hidden wisdom concealed behind the words of the Scripture? Are there not things to be yet revealed by our L-rd? When they are revealed…is it like a birth to those who finally understand.
I see wisdom as Hannah in Samuel….Hannah (spiritual wisdom) was the one favored and loved by her husband more than the other wife, Peninnah…which means "ruby"….is not wisdom more precious than rubies?(Proverbs 3:15.) Hannah was loved more than Peninnah (ruby). Heavenly wisdom is better than the earthly wisdom of the Scriptures.
Do we really listen to Sarah's voice? Sarah is wisdom. She cries out…she calls us…she instructs us. Without the more loved and favored wisdom, how will we see the Messiah? More are the children of the barren and desolate. The L-rd makes the barren woman (who I see as spiritual wisdom) to keep house and be a joyful mother. When she gives birth, we will then be able to hear the voice of the Messiah through the deeper understanding of the Scriptures.
Wheelz03 |
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Sophiee1 |
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Posts: 12178 (05/11/09 16:05:43) Moderator |
Wheelz, Isaiah 7 says nothing about a barren woman. It simply says that a young woman who IS pregnant will have a boy she'll name Immanuel. The prophecy is
not the birth of the child, or the wisdom (or lack thereof) of its mother. The prophecy is that before the child can tell the difference between good and evil
King Ahaz will have won his wars.
It really helps to read things IN CONTEXT. The whole wisdom as an entity nonsense is pagan. Sarah was wise, but she was NOT wisdom. No person is a thing. And G-d is not a man. Your post was all new age made up stuff that has nothing to do with the Torah or 'nach. There is wisdom in Torah. There is truth in torah. They aren't entities in the Torah either, but rather instructions for us to LEARN wisdom and truth. As for your parting shot -- the messiah must prove himself to US, not the other way around. We don't have to be wise to hear the voice of the messiah. We can be deaf, dumb and blind! The messiah must fulfill the messianic prophecies or he is not the messiah. When the real messiah comes it will be so obvious a simpleton will know it.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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SearchinMyRoots |
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Posts: 580 (05/11/09 17:46:25) |
Deuteronomy 4 tells us specifically what wisdom is:
5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and ordinances, even as HaShem my G-d commanded me, that ye should do so in the midst of the land whither ye go in to possess it. 6 Observe therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the peoples, that, when they hear all these statutes, shall say: 'Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people.' 7 For what great nation is there, that hath G-d so nigh unto them, as HaShem our G-d is whensoever we call upon Him? 8 And what great nation is there, that hath statutes and ordinances so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this
day?
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Posts: 1994 (05/12/09 08:34:08) |
Sophiee1 wrote:
http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל
Last Edited By: ProfBenTziyyon
05/12/09 09:24:24.
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Sophiee1 |
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Posts: 12181 (05/12/09 08:50:04) Moderator |
Excellent post, Professor. Note that it has nothing to do with virgins or with barren women OR spiritual wisdom as an entity.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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