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Posts: 134
Wed, 18-May-11 11:27:16
Posts: 1232
Wed, 18-May-11 14:50:23
jc also said to the elders the only sign he would show them is that he will be in the ground for 3 days and 3 nights and then will return.Besides the inconsistencies of the 3 days and 3 nights, he never did appear to the elders did he?Why not? He said he would. He didn't.Sounds like another false prophecy to me.
Posts: 7963
Wed, 18-May-11 14:56:18
I challenged mark to say where Yoshke said he was “the Messiah of Yisrael” and mark responded with
mark wrote:I can think of a couple: Mark 14:62 and John 4:25.
Considering each of these in turn,
1) Marcus 14:62—Yoshke has been asked in 14:61 if he is “the Mashiyaḥ, the ‘son of the blessed’ ”. Now, firstly, there is no expression in Jewish literature that has the meaning of “the son of the blessed” and, if “the blessed” is supposed to refer to God, such a concept would be blasphemous in Jewish thought and something that no Jew would ever say. But more importantly, and assuming that Yoshke wasn’t actually speaking in Greek and the Greek words reported as his in the Marcus 14:62 are just a translation, what can he actually have said? Ἐγώ means “I” and εἰμι means “am” but neither Hebrew nor Aramaic has a word for am. So it is impossible for him to have responded to the question he had been asked with the words “I am”. This is a point that the overwhelming majority of christians—who cannot speak word one of Hebrew—will be totally oblivious of. But one thing is absolutely certain: he does not say in the cited verse that he was “the Messiah of Yisrael”, or even any other “Messiah”.2) Yoḥanan 4:25—Again one verse earlier, a woman from Shomron has said to him (in paraphrase) “I know that a Messiah is coming and that, when he comes, he will explain all these things for us”. And what is Yoshke’s reply? He says ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ λαλῶν σοι, which REALLY means “I am the one speaking to you”. It is wholly dishonest of the various translators to morph this enigmatic statement into “I who am speaking to you am he”. The truth is that he never claimed explicitly to be “the Messiah” or even, when asked, explicitly confirmed that such was his claim; and he wouldn’t even confirm explicitly that he was claiming King David’s throne for, when asked by Pilatus if he was the king of the Jews, the only answer he gave was Σὺ λέγεις, “That’s what you say!”
mark also wrote:What sort of "blaze of publicity" was there when Elisha raised the child of the Shunammite woman from the dead in 2 Kings 4:32?
How many people have you ever head of who worship that child as a “messiah” and a “god”? Does anyone even know his name? That nameless and unknown child is hardly comparable to Yoshke!
mark wrote:I never heard that expression before - "telling porkies".
You have never heard that expression before because it’s ENGLISH, not American. “Porky” is short for “pork pie”, which is an example of “rhyming slang”. In rhyming slang (a form of slang commonly used by the “cockneys” of London’s “East End”), the second word of a two word term is never actually spoken—one needs to know that a “porky” is a “pork PIE” and hence a “porky” is a “lie” because “pie” rhymes with “lie”.
http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל
Posts: 1778
Wed, 18-May-11 15:18:40
mredd wrote:i got the following from muslim discussion forum
mredd wrote:Pilate continued on as a brutal governor of Judea after the death of jesus. THERE IS NOTHING IN THE HISTORICAL RECORD to suggest that he even remembered having ordered jesus' execution, let ALONE FELT regret over it.
mredd wrote:jesus said that god destroys flesh and soul in hell. tell me something , did god destroy his flesh and soul in hell to make appeasement to himself, or did he just destroy his flesh on earth and suffered for fraction of a sec or possibly less?
Posts: 5945
Fri, 20-May-11 10:39:33
Looks to me just now as if we're dealing here with another shotgun-approach, willy-nilly series of anti-xtian broadsides.You and I know of course that the resurrection is the focal event of the GT. Many other participants here know that as well. I wouldn't necessarily expect mredd to know it. So I don't have all that much problem with his previous obsession with Paul.But now he's equated Pentecost with the "Matthew's zombies" question.Um, ahem, ...It's rather like being hostile towards arithmetic. Someone needs to get basic facts straight before there's any point in discussion.
Posts: 20703
Fri, 20-May-11 11:15:12
Moderator
mark wrote: Sophiee1 wrote:The Jewish bible tells us of resurrections -- Ezekiel 37 is about the reussurection of many -- not just one -- and none of them were worshiped.True, but none of them claimed to be the Messiah, the Son of G-d.
Sophiee1 wrote:The Jewish bible tells us of resurrections -- Ezekiel 37 is about the reussurection of many -- not just one -- and none of them were worshiped.
Posts: 1507
Sun, 22-May-11 08:47:04
Sun, 22-May-11 19:58:57
Sophiee1 wrote:The resurrection alone is proof of none of it -- as you clearly agree.
Sun, 22-May-11 20:04:02
Posts: 4849
Sun, 22-May-11 21:01:15
Administrator
Sophiee1 wrote: And I am not masculine in any manner so please drop the "master."
Sun, 22-May-11 21:27:56
UriYosef wrote:I doubt you'd want to be referred to with the feminine version of "master"
I believe the feminine version of “master” is something between a “mister” and a “mattress”, isn’t it?
Sun, 22-May-11 22:39:16
Tue, 24-May-11 05:17:00
UriYosef wrote:Mordochai, You surely have a way with words...
That’s the result of an Oxford education (even it it was a very long time ago).
Sat, 28-May-11 09:24:25
Thu, 2-Jun-11 10:10:34
As in such appellations as "Madam Chairman," "Madam President," etc.
Thu, 2-Jun-11 10:43:56
Thu, 2-Jun-11 15:24:27
Posts: 112
Thu, 2-Jun-11 21:25:38
Thu, 2-Jun-11 22:49:22
Proteus wrote:every single action, in his view, has to be either one or the other; good or bad, there being no "indifferent."
Proteus wrote:Chrstian evangelists are the only ones who ever report witnessing events like this.
Thu, 2-Jun-11 23:27:19
mark wrote: Let's put it this way... if there was such a thing as what Jesus called "Satan", would this "Satan" have more success with people who believed in him as such, or with people who thought he was a fictional invention of the church?
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