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Posts: 1232
Wed, 30-Jan-13 18:13:07
mark wrote: SearchinMyRoots wrote:And yes, we do notice that Mark always seems to find a way to throw in jc here and there even though it has nothing to do with the topic in discussion. Seriously? Did you happen to notice that this is called a "Counter-Missionary Forum"? SMR, every discussion here is ultimately about "jc" - even when Christians aren't involved in the discussion. As for me, I try to follow the forum rules 100%. I do not engage in extensive quoting from Christian scripture, or paste links to Christian websites, or attempt to proselytize, etc. All I'm trying to do is consider all aspects of the discussion. So really, it shouldn't be shocking to find out that a discussion in a Counter-Missionary forum occasionally comes back to "jc". Well, I'm not so sure every discussion is about jc. This one wasn't until you stated "Christian scripture teaches......". We were talking about G-d's emotions and how it is unfathomable to understand what is really meant. Of course it's easy to relate emotions to what you believe is a human god.I've observed it many times in your posts Mark. You love to let us know what the nt and jc says and say it so eloquently that it fits right in under the radar. Whether you realize it or not, it is a subtle way of preaching. I'm sure there are some others here who may agree. Maybe not.I agree, you do always try to follow the forum rules and apologize if you do not. Thank you for that.Am I shocked that a conversation may occasionally come back to jc? Absolutely not! That's what you're here for.
SearchinMyRoots wrote:And yes, we do notice that Mark always seems to find a way to throw in jc here and there even though it has nothing to do with the topic in discussion.
Well, I'm not so sure every discussion is about jc. This one wasn't until you stated "Christian scripture teaches......". We were talking about G-d's emotions and how it is unfathomable to understand what is really meant. Of course it's easy to relate emotions to what you believe is a human god.I've observed it many times in your posts Mark. You love to let us know what the nt and jc says and say it so eloquently that it fits right in under the radar. Whether you realize it or not, it is a subtle way of preaching. I'm sure there are some others here who may agree. Maybe not.I agree, you do always try to follow the forum rules and apologize if you do not. Thank you for that.Am I shocked that a conversation may occasionally come back to jc? Absolutely not! That's what you're here for.
Wed, 30-Jan-13 18:41:10
mark wrote: "Teshuvah", huh? Look, if you're trying to make this personal, and say something that hurts me deeply, you've succeeded. I love my wife very much. I don't think it's right of you to bring my wife into this discussion. If you think you have that right because of what is written in my profile, then please let me know, and I'll remove it. I didn't put that there for you to make personal comments. I put that there so there won't be any chance of people accusing me of trying to deceive them. Please let me know what you'd prefer. Mark,I know this wasn't addressed to me, but since you mentioned your profile, I took a look at it. I have to admit it is 100% honest as to why you are here.If you don't want people to comment about things that you feel as "personal" then I would definitely suggest you change your profile. What do you expect Jewish people should do when they read this " Nevertheless, I have a deep burden for the tribulation that lies ahead for this people, and I now know that God has given me a mission to shine the light of Messiah Jesus into their hearts, and help to bring them into the Ark of Safety for the time to come.?You've expressed your personal goal very clearly.To us it is personal as well.Just as much as you feel the need to "save" us (and your wife included), we are deeply saddened when we see one of our own that may be off the path. Our Hebrew bible tells us to "return to HIM and HE will return to us". If G-d is the ultimate judge, who are you to say there is tribulation that lies ahead for this people? G-d tells us many times what is required of us as a people. That is who we listen to.King Solomon, who it just happens to say is the wisest man in the Tanach puts it all on the line. Nothing more, nothing less.Kohelet - Ecclesiastes - Chapter 12 (JPT)13. For every deed G-d will bring to judgment-for every hidden thing, whether good or bad.14. The end of the matter, everything having been heard, fear G-d and keep His commandments, for this is the entire man.Read it carefully. At the end of the matter when everything has been heard. Fear G-d and keep His Commandments.For this is the whole of man.Nothing more, nothing less.
Posts: 7963
Wed, 30-Jan-13 19:09:53
SearchinMyRoots wrote:To us it is personal as well. . . Just as much as you feel the need to "save" us (and your wife included), we are deeply saddened when we see one of our own that may be off the path.
http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל
Wed, 30-Jan-13 22:30:53
ProfBenTziyyon wrote:SearchinMyRoots wrote:To us it is personal as well. . . Just as much as you feel the need to "save" us (and your wife included), we are deeply saddened when we see one of our own that may be off the path.Do I detect a change in your attitude, SMR? I don’t recall you ever identifying so explicitly with Jewish people before.
Thu, 31-Jan-13 07:35:15
SearchinMyRoots wrote:they find out quickly that a learned Jew is not one they want to spend much time with because we can actually refute most everything they say.
Posts: 1778
Thu, 31-Jan-13 11:32:54
SearchinMyRoots wrote:If you don't want people to comment about things that you feel as "personal" then I would definitely suggest you change your profile.
Sophiee1 wrote:You always ignore the bits that don't fit your agenda
Sophiee1 wrote:I note you didn't answer any of my questions regarding the use of "light" in B'reshit / Genesis 1
Sophiee1 wrote:The fact that you married a Jewish woman is a material fact in this forum.
Posts: 20703
Thu, 31-Jan-13 11:48:11
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mark wrote:Sophiee1 wrote:I note you didn't answer any of my questions regarding the use of "light" in B'reshit / Genesis 1 Obviously nobody can answer those questions. So I assumed they were rhetorical, asked only to make a point about language. And I responded accordingly. It's amazing to me that after all this time, you still think I'm trying to stonewall you. I really wish we could just stick to the discussion.
I note you didn't answer any of my questions regarding the use of "light" in B'reshit / Genesis 1
"And G-d said let there be light"
Lastly, it is important to recognize that Hashem has no emotions. This somehow seems to escape the attention of many people. . . Humans have a natural tendency to ascribe human qualities and emotions to G-d. Indeed, pagan gods are nothing more than imagined beings with the same feelings and characteristics of the people who worship them. We must be very careful not to project our own qualities onto Hashem, as the prophet admonishes: "The Children of Israel ascribed things that were not so to Hashem their G-d" (Melachim II 17:9)..
"The Children of Israel ascribed things that were not so to Hashem their G-d" (Melachim II 17:9)..
Thu, 31-Jan-13 12:01:14
"So when we ask G-d to have mercy on us, compassion, etc, we are asking for him to deal with us in a way that we define as mercy, compassion, etc? (It’s very hard to understand this because we think like humans and G-d can’t be defined in human terms, like you said.) But what I don’t understand is that, when G-d acts with mercy towards us, isn’t He having mercy, so doesn’t that mean He has mercy?"
"So if our actions can’t be compared to Hashem’s at all, how can the Torah say that our Midos should emulates G-d’s – ma hu rachum, af ata rachum? If all these Midos in regard to Hashem are only a Moshol, then how can we “emulate” Hashem by us having real Midos?"
One more thing: if G-d doesn't experience emotion, then He must either be incapable of emotion or chose not to experience it. Surely G-d would choose to love His own people if it were a possibility, so then, is He incapable of love? If so, wouldn't that be placing boundaries on a limitless G-d? And either way, what is the purpose of davening and fulfilling all sorts of requirements if not to please G-d?
"So let me get this straight....everything that's said about "G-d's love" isn't literal at all? So G-d's feelings about us are totally neutral, or don't really exist? Sorry, it’s just kind of a weird realization to think that...but if G-d didn't really "love" us, and if He doesn't "need" or "want" anything, then what would be His motivation to create the world?"
"When you say such things like "Hashem is One”, "He just is, He never began nor ever will end,” "Hashem is Kulo Pushut" etc. - do you fully understand what these terms mean or are you just referring us to different places where Hashem is described? Honestly, can we really comprehend what this truly means?"
Fri, 1-Feb-13 10:13:53
Sophiee1 wrote:Sorry, I don't buy the "innocent me" tack you so often proffer.
Sophiee1 wrote:you ignore all those quotes where clearly we are told that G-d does not change, is not a man, and so on.
Sophiee1 wrote:You have an agenda and you ignore anything that doesn't fit your agenda
Sophiee1 wrote:Rather than assume (if you do not know the answer) the logical thing to do is ask for the answer.
Did He speak out loud? How? What does it MEAN "and G-d said" or even "let there be light"? Did G-d originally say those words in Hebrew or is that how He dictated it to Moses? what kind of light was G-d speaking about? Light came into existence prior to the heavens and prior to the sun -- so what does "light" mean?
Sophiee1 wrote:(quoting Rabbi Shapiro) "So too, when we say Hashem gets “angry” we mean that Hashem acts in a way that seems to us angry."
Fri, 1-Feb-13 12:12:40
Posts: 5945
Fri, 1-Feb-13 12:33:44
Fri, 1-Feb-13 12:37:02
Fri, 1-Feb-13 12:43:21
Fri, 1-Feb-13 13:04:49
Sophiee1 wrote:We have years of history with you showing your true colors -- and you make them clear in your profile on Yuku.
Sophiee1 wrote:if indeed you are innocent and simply want to know the answer -- then be OPEN to the answer (whether you agree with it or not). Otherwise why shouldn't I doubt your motives?
Sophiee1 wrote:The point that you miss -- and it applies directly to G-d not changing -- is that by taking the simplistic approach that there was light as in sunlight one is totally misreading the Jewish bible. This is just as true for those who read that G-d created the world in 6 yom and then say it was 6 24-hour days although (again) there was not yet a 24 hour day!!!
Sophiee1 wrote:G-d doesn't have the wings of a vulture. G-d does not have 7 eyes. These are terms used in the T'nach to describe something in a way that people can relate to what is being written.
Sophiee1 wrote:When we say that G-d became angry, or G-d "acted" -- to us there was a change (e.g., the Red Sea parted) -- but this is all seen from the perspective of man -- not the perspective of G-d.
Fri, 1-Feb-13 13:06:38
Fri, 1-Feb-13 13:10:17
mark wrote:Sophiee1 wrote:We have years of history with you showing your true colors -- and you make them clear in your profile on Yuku.For the record, because you feel it is acceptable to drag my wife into these discussions based on my profile, I've changed my profile. I hereby officially request that you do not discuss her religious status on this forum. It's private information that I no longer wish to share with the public. Let's just have our discussions of scripture and leave the poor girl out of it. Okay?
Fri, 1-Feb-13 13:12:03
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