faithfulremnant,

I hope I didn't give the impression that I believe all oppression of the Jews have necessarily been by divine decree. I was more trying to illustrate the fact that even when G-d decreed that Israel must be punished and repent, their punishers always faced retribution from G-d. In most cases they ceased to be a distinct people while Israel lived on through the ages into today.

As Uri said, Isaiah 53 gives insight into the amazement of the gentile nations when they realize that they had continued to oppress Israel, believing G-d had discarded and disregarded him, when in fact it was they that placed their yoke upon him on their own whim, and based on their own dislike for him, and their own low opinion of him.

You bring up the Holocaust, and I've heard the Holocaust cited on various occasions as punishment for not accepting Jsus. It has often been used as an excuse through the ages, that Jews have been punished and persecuted for their rejection of Chrstianity. This is actually what this thread was started in regard to, along with the other nations that have oppressed and wish to oppress Israel. The notion that the last 2,000 years have been punishment by G-d for not listening.

The fact is this time Israel was listening. They did heed the warnings of Hashem's prophets. They did use the criteria laid out in the Torah for a prophet and for a false prophet. For mashiach and for a false claimant. For G-d and for a false god. They were on the ball on this one.

It's not a rejection of G-d that has caused Israel to continue to be oppressed. It's rejection of the gods of the majority. Rejection of the gods of the nations that surround him. Rejection of the gods of the later Romans. They could never accept that, and placed their yoke on the remnant of Israel through the millenia.

As the Torah, the Nevi'im, and Ketuvim illustrate, G-d used other nations to bring Israel to tshuva, but those nations always paid for their role in oppressing and destroying the people and the land. What this thread is intended to illustrate is nobody should want to be the nation responsible for oppressing Israel, or perpetuating it's most long and difficult exile. Because as that promise to Abraham says, and as the history of Israel has shown both in the Tanach and elsewhere, those that curse Israel will be cursed. Those that oppress Israel will face retribution. And Israel will never cease to be G-d's first born, whom He has chosen.

Netanel
I asked for strength, and G-d gave difficulties to make me strong. I asked for wisdom, and G-d gave me problems to solve. I asked for prosperity, and G-d gave me brawn and brain to work. I asked for courage, and G-d gave me dangers to overcome. I asked for love, and G-d gave me troubled people to help. I asked for favors, and G-d gave me opportunities. I received nothing I wanted. I received everything I needed. My prayers were answered.