Quote:
JOE:
According to you, how can it be possible that the Tanakh doesn't say ANYTHING about Jesus, when it predicted and talked about far less important people and things.

REUVEN:
The Tanakh speaks of THE Messiah, not J*. There is QUITE a difference.

That said, Devarim 13 says plenty but you want to us to leave out the fact that he was a false prophet.

Fine....tell us, did J* fulfill ANY of the REAL prophecies? Nope...

That said, our Tanakh says these things are to happen in the messianic era and in no way did the false messiah do so and since he also claimed his first followers would see him again before they died, I'd say not only was he a false messiah, he was also a false prophet who didn't know a thing about Judaism.

Now, let's talk about prophecy as it relates to messiah....

The definition for Messiah is as follows: The Bible describes a wise and righteous descendant of Kings David and Solomon who will rule Israel as King during the Utopian climax of world history. This time will be characterized by:

1. Universal peaced and disarmament
No one fulfilled this REQUIREMENT.

2. The regathering of Jewish exiles back to their ancestral homeland.
No one fulfilled this REQUIREMENT.

3. These Jews will live in total peace in their homeland.
No one fulfilled this REQUIREMENT.

4. The Temple will be rebuilt in Jerusalem and the sacrifical system restored. (This hasn't happened yet)
No one fulfilled this REQUIREMENT.

5. The Jewish people will all know G-d and will all totally follow His Torah.
No one fulfilled this REQUIREMENT.

6. The nations of the world will turn to the Jewish people to learn about the Almighty.
No one fulfilled this REQUIREMENT.

In fact, it is now the Jewish people who are supposedly the ones who are to learn about their own Messiah.....does that make any sense to you?

7. There will be a universal knowledge of G-d.
No one fulfilled this REQUIREMENT.

The following are some of the Biblical passages that describe Messiah...

Isaiah 11:1-9
Jeremiah 23:5-6
Jeremiah 30:7-9
Jeremiah 33:14-18
Ezekiel 34:23-31
Ezekiel 37:24-28
Hosea 3:4-5
Zechariah 9:9-10

What is crucial about these passages is that:

a)They are the only passages in the Bible that speak about a descendant of David who is to come in the future and will be king. (By the way, it is only because we know he'll be a king that we have the right to call him the Mashiach, since we know clearly from the Bible that Kings were anointed, which is the Hebrew term for Mashiach.)

b)These passages are clear: So clear that no one disagrees about whether they are truly describing the Messiah. (The same is clearly not the case for passages that many Xian apologists cite to 'prove' that J* was Mashiach.)

c)These passages are consistent: The picture of the Messiah doesn't hang on one isolated passage, but is corroborated by many passages describing the same thing.

d)This template is empirically verifiable.
That is: We can literally see with our eyes if some is or isn't the Messiah.

That's why the Tanakh never speaks about 'believing' that someone is Mashiach.
Quote:
JOE:
We're not talking about 'a prophet' here. We're talking about a person like no other. So, I'm talking about the general warnings of false prophets.

REUVEN:
No, YOU are talking about "a person like no other" not anyone else here....unless of course, they're xians...
Quote:
JOE:
Jesus who has close to two billion followers.
Jesus who affected the history of mankind like no other.

REUVEN:
Jim Jones had followers too.
Numbers of followers are MOOT.
Quote:
JOE:
I find it very difficult to believe that the Tanakh doesn't say anything about Jesus.

REUVEN:
It does....but you demanded we not address the fact he's a false prophet. The Tanakh does not speak of J* specifically but of people who are/were just like him....charlatans, deceivers, false teachers, false messiahs, those who will lead Jews away from G-d, etc, etc....