Harry wrote:

I interpret CK's post of (2/14/06 3:18 pm) as saying, "Yes, humanity does need a savior."

I agree.

I further interpret the same post as saying, "HaShem alone is the savior."

I again agree.

The opportunity presents, to "flesh that out" in Jewish terms

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Apparently I mis-spoke in that post, and for that I apologise. A neshama is immortal. One of the biggest problems we seem to have is vocabulary--a word means one thing in Judaism; it's something entirely other in Christian terms.

We've talked a bit, offline, about souls, and I'd prefer to keep that offline. I don't feel comfortable going much into the mystical side here.

But your neshama is perfect, pure, eternal. No-one, nothing, need save it, because that's the one part of you that nobody, nothing can hurt or destroy.

My concept of us needing Hashem, and of Hashem needing us, is not about neshamot being saved--because they can't get 'unsaved' to begin with.

I know you've asked for no reference to Christianity in this thread, but I've never heard of souls being saved in any other context than Christianity--if we're even talking about the same thing when we say souls.

Again, I am sorry for any confusion I may have caused. I would prefer not to hash out kabbalistic concepts here. And without going into kabbala, I don't know if I can explain this. Someone else may; kabbala is not the only, or even the most prevalent, way of understanding Jewish spirituality.

So I guess all I can say is yes, there are places where humans can and do mess up, big time, even spiritually. But it's not the neshama that's getting messed up.