Dougg,

It's your interpretation vs. "theirs" (meaning other very intelligent christians throughout history who have disagreed with you and have had very good reason to do so). You're shooting into the dark, blindly assuming your beliefs are those taught directly by Jesus and Paul when you have no evidence of any such thing. The only records we have of early christian thought after 120 ACE (after the NT was finished) shows that all christians disagreed with non-denominational trinitarians like yourself. What an indictment against modern trinitarian belief! Why you quote from scripture now that wasn't necessarily the exact same scripture then (from about 120-381 ACE) is beyond me.

How do you reconcile these facts with your own fanciful wishful thinking? Maybe some true *secret* unknown believers in the Trinity escaped the pages of history and passed down the right teachings to folks like yourself?

What seems glaringly obvious is that all christian thought recorded from about 120-381 ACE shows that all these people worshipped a different god (or gods) than modern day Trinitarians.

Quote scripture all you'd like to try to prove your point, but it makes no difference. When you cannot find evidence that the first christians actually shared your thoughts on God, there's no point claiming that you actually follow the true teachings of Jesus. The best you can say historically is that no self-proclaimed christians worshipped God correctly for centuries between 120-381 ACE. Can you say that? Thank goodness the Catholic Church came along to proclaim the truth about the Trinity, huh?

There's actually more historical evidence in support of James teaching a UNITARIAN concept of God (based on Judaizers and Ebionites who claimed to descend from these Jews) than there is anything that teaches of christians who believed in a Trinity back then. At least when I make claims about James and his teachings (that differ from Paul's) there seems to be some merit to the argument based on later Ebionite literature that survived historically. You have zero basis for your trinitarian beliefs (whether they came from Paul - which is debateable based on 300 years of christians who followed him - or not).

Can you agree that the historical record shows all christians for about 300 years following Paul - all followed a different god than your own - or had a heretical / idolatrous view of God?

And you wonder why Jews rejected Jesus and Pauline teaching? Based on all the literature of the early church-fathers, all that heresy in your view - or idolatrous notions on God and Jesus - can you blame them? Looks like Jews had very good reason to reject the nonsense taught by the church from about 120-381 ACE, doesn't it? How can you say Jews back in 120 ACE (right after the NT was written) denied modern Trinitarian views which cannot be proven to have existed back then? Looks like they rejected dualism, gnosticism, modalism, etc.. Seems modern non-denominationals would have actually SIDED with Jews against every last church-father whose thoughts have been articulated and have survived history. THEY were all wrong. Seems the Jews had VERY good reason to outright reject those teachings.

How could Jews have possibly known and rejected "true" christian belief from about 120-381ACE if no such beliefs were in existence at the time, since it seems the entire christian world, as we know it, was wrong? Seems the Jews were correct for rejecting these ridiculous notions of God that they never learned from their fathers. It seems crystal clear that Jews back then should have been commended for being faithful to God's command never to follow gods their fathers didn't know. The gods of the church-fathers are gods that non-denominationals or Protestants would reject today!!!

So where's the commendation? Applause? Jews did the right thing rejecting all these ridiculous, heretical teachings of false christs, right? Or am I to conclude that every christian on this board (who has a problem with Jews rejecting Jesus) actually faults Jews for rejecting all these heretical teachings by the church-fathers?

-----------------

"He who saves one life... it is as if he saves an entire universe. He who destroys a life... it is as if he destroys an entire universe"

TALMUD - Sanhedrin 4:5

-----------------