Quote:
Chaim
Your last post is a statement of faith, not fact. Please name and quote for us the earliest christian who clearly and unambiguously articulated a belief in the Trinity you now profess.

Sophie
It is nothing but one big sermon.


OK, thanks for reminding me.
I also wrote:
"In time, during the first, second and third century, it became necessary to formulate the doctrine of the Trinity (with the help of pagan philosophy!), because there grew more and more false teachings about God, His Christ and the Spirit. That was done in the first councels. "

This spiritual battle with the 'heretics' (one could as well say 'searchers' or 'misguided'), is the reason for formulating the doctrine. And Ignatius van Antiochi (circa 70-110) did so in his Epistle to the Philippians (Chapter II.Unity of the three divine persons).; and Irenaeus van Lyon (circa 140 - circa 202) did so in his Adversus Haereses (Book III, and IV). They and others were countering the gnostics and other extremist movements. They clearly were in search for the right countermissionary arguments: so it is not completely trinitarian: because the process is not the result.

So, Chaim, you have your names. I believe there is a continuous line from the apostles to the first councels in the 4th century that is trinitarian: the doctines were formulated after a process of searching and countering all kinds of heretics.

Another point:
Trinitarian belief: I have seen christians mixing up the Father, Jesus and the Spirit, as they suited; for example: filling in 'Jesus' in the HT text, where 'God' or 'the Word of the Lord' is mentioned. I think this is a perversion (heresy?) of trinitarian belief.

Quote:
David
Beautiful Hebrew poetry as also all chapter 22.
If structure of language is not known how can one assume to guess its meaning.


I think it is more then poetry; but in a way you are right. Religious texts, trying to find words for the 'Inexpressible' must become some kind of poetry.

Aad