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TRINITARIAN challenge to Protestant Christians
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Re: TRINITARIAN challenge to Protestant Christians
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Thomas
Re: Re: TRINITARIAN challenge to Protestant Christians
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Sun, 4-Nov-07 18:16:22
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In the other thread about the NT, Chaim wrote this:
"You wrote that you don't know much about Eusebius but are aware of the early church-fathers being false teachers. Can you name one influential christian whose beliefs were as "correct" as yours, who lived at any time between 120-381 ACE? This is in my Trinitarian challenge thread. My contention is that your brand of christianity creatively evolved LONG after Paul and Jesus. Either that, or Paul and Jesus did a HORRENDOUS job of teaching "true christianity" to the 1st christian followers from about 120-381 ACE (Nicea, etc.). Ergo, your interpretations are your own, and were unknown to the earliest christians who followed Paul and Jesus..."
If we didn't have the internet, how many people would hear about me today, let alone 1800 years from now. One Christian pastor I met, after studying the NT on his own for some time came to an exact same conclusion that I had, in spite of his seminary indoctrination, but he was afraid of publicly expressing it since he could be put out of his church, and since there was a shortage of pastors he didn't want to deprive people of spiritual leadership, so he chose to keep quiet about that particular doctrine. He certainly has not been able to publish his beliefs. I am not alone in my beliefs, but since we are not putting out books, very few hear of us.
On the other hand, I attended a college Bible class by Richard Foster, who since became a famous Christian author. As his student, I saw some problem points in his thinking that I believed were simply in disaccord with the NT's plain teaching. But, if you come back 1800 years in the future, who are you going to find? Probably Richard Foster, but certainly not me, unless something radical changes.
You are judging the state of Christianity in the second century by the famous authors of that period: The Richard Fosters, Billy Grahams, Rick Warrens, Norman Vincent Peales. There is a whole group of people who disagree with these present day authors, to differing degrees, but 1800 years from today, you might not have a clue to those people who are like me. I simply believe that there were a whole group of people like me in the second century. I might not be able to find one representative in the historical archives, but knowing how things are today, that doesn't bother me.
As to a "disciple" of the Apostle John having to be right, I point out the example of the Chinese Christian leader Witness Lee who was a devoted follower of Watchman Nee. After Nee was jailed by the communists and Lee escaped to Taiwan, Lee took a decided veer from some of Watchman Nee's beliefs. Fortunately, Nee's teachings were preserved in writing, so we don't have to judge him by his "disciple". The same applies to the Apostle John.
I repeat my assertion that throughout the history of the Bible, the correct people were often, almost always in the minority. So, I do not agree with your conclusion that since I don't have any historical support to offer for my position, that I am following my own invention or evolution unknown or untaught by Paul or Jesus. I see my beliefs coming right out of the NT. I have spent most of my time studying those documents, and the internal integrity and consistency of the NT itself is what I am defending. Whether or not the early Christian famous authors taught the Trinity is of little importance to me. Neither am I aware if they were all false teachers or not. I have simply indicated my reaction to certain quotes that I believe are incorrect, and my openness to the idea that they could be false teachers. They probably said a lot of things that are true also, as did Martin Luther and Richard Foster for that matter.
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