Doug wrote: Okay, JM was not talking about an independent separate God, but the one God in another way, as a matter of distinction... i.e. as in the trinity. This comes out when you read the subsequent dialogue in the remaining parts.

Malachi response: I read that Doug. what you said above is you again presupposing the trinity in order to prove it which is a fallacy. What does Justin actually say, let him say it not you.

that there is, and that there is said to be, another God (ALLOS QEOS) and Lord subject to the Maker of all things; who is also called an Angel, because He announces to men whatsoever the Maker of all things,above whom there is no other God,wishes to announce to them."(Dialugue with Trypho, LVI)

He says another G-d Doug, subject to the Maker of all things, who is also called an Angel, etc.

Here are some things I think you should be aware of in your understanding of the use of the word G-d. Maybe this will help you appreciate how the words elohim/theos can be used. These are quotes from Trinitarian sources.

1. The Interpreter's Bible at Psalm 8:5 states:
Thou hast made him a little lower than angels. Another translation is "than a god". Obviously the psalmist would not say than God. The word `elohim is capable of these three interpretations, since it means either a divine being (god) or divine beings (angels) or the divine being par excellence (God). The context must be our guide to its sense.

2: The Interpreter's Bible at Psalm 58:1 states:
It is clear that he believes that God assigned to subordinate divine beings or gods certain functions to be discharged by them in the rule of the cosmos and of men, but these divine deputies have been faithless to the trust reposed in them and have become in consequence the cause of the ills in the social order of the world both directly and through their human agents.

3. The Interpreter's Bible at John 10:36 states:
He quoted Ps. 82:6, where God says to the judges of Israel, "I said, Ye are gods, and all of you sons of the Most High." If an inspired Scripture allowed that title to mere men to whom God entrusted a message, how much more can he, whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, claim to say I am the Son of God without incurring the reproach of blasphemy?
4. The Liberty Bible Commentary states at Psalm 82:1,6:
He judgeth among the gods. This expression has led some to understand that this psalm is actually addressed to the minor gods of a pagan pantheon. Yet, in the highly poetic language of Psalms, it is natural for civil governors, especially those entrusted with the administration of justice, to be likened to gods over men.

Ye are gods...But ye shall die like men. But even though these men have held lofty positions, they must not forget that great men die, just as common men do. Even God's representatives in judgment must one day die and face judgment themselves.

5. The Full Life Study Bible states at Psalm 82:6:
I HAVE SAID, YE ARE GODS. The term 'gods' (Heb. `elohim) probably refers to human authorities and judges in Israel who were designated as God's representatives in administering justice, protecting the weak, and helping deliver them from their oppressors. The term in no way means that mere humans are potentially gods, but only that they can become God's representatives with power and authority to bring judgment and carry out justice.

6. The Believer's Study Bible at John 10:31-36 states:
Jesus bases His argument on Ps. 82:6. In essence, He reminds the Jews that their own judges were called gods because of: (1) the divine origin of the delegation of authority given them, and (2) the justice which formed the foundation of their system of jurisprudence (v. 34). If the Jews voiced no antagonism against the psalmist in their own Scriptures for calling men "gods", why are they now objecting to Jesus' designation of Himself as "Son of God"?

7. The New American Bible states at Psalm 58:2, 82:1,6:
Like gods: literally, "O gods!" Here, as also in Ps 82, judges are called "gods" in the sense of "possessing godlike power", or of "taking God's place in pronouncing judgment."


Notice how the patristics use the word God in these quotes.


"We have learned that those only are DEIFIED who have lived near to God in holiness and virtue."-JUSTIN MARTYR, The First Apology Of Justin, chapter XXI (21); ANF, Vol. I, p. 170.

"For we cast blame upon Him, because we have not been made gods from the beginning, but at first merely men, then at length gods;"-IRENAEUS, Irenaeus Against Heresies, Book IV (4), chapter XXXVIII (38) , 4; ANF, Vol. I, p. 52

" having bestowed on us the truly great, divine, and inalienable inheritance of the Father, deifying man by heavenly teaching,"-CLEMENT of Alexandria, Exhortation To The Heathen (or, The Greeks, or, The Gentiles), chapter XI (11); ANF, Vol. II, p. 203.

"But let us, O children of the Father-nurslings of the good Instructor -fulfil the Father's will ... and meditating on the heavenly mode of life according to which we have been deified, let us anoint ourselves with the perennial, immortal bloom of gladness."-CLEMENTof Alexandria, The Instructor (Peadagogus), Book I, chapter XII (12); ANF, Vol. II, p. 234.

"The Creator did not wish to make him a god, and failed in His aim; nor an angel-be not deceived-but a man. For if He had wished to make thee a god, He could have done so. Thou hast the example of the Logos "-Hippolytus, The Refutation Of All Heresies, Book X (10), chapter XXIX (29); ANF, Vol. V (5), p. 151.

"And thou shalt be a companion of the Deity, and a co-heir with Christ, no longer enslaved by lusts or passions, and never again wasted by disease. For thou hast become God ... For the Deity, (by condescension,) does not diminish aught of the dignity of His divine perfection; having made thee even God unto His glory!"-ibid., chapter XXX (30); ibid., p. 153.

"If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and by the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the laver he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection of the dead."-Hippolytus, Discourse On The Holy Theophany, 8; ANF, Vol. V, p. 237.

"For He was made man that we might be made God."-Athanasisus, Incarnation Of The Word, (De Incarnatione Verbi Dei), The Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Edinburgh, T&T Clark; Grand Rapids, William B. Eerdmans Publishing Co.; Second Series, Vol. IV (4), p. 65, reprinting of October, 1987. "For He has become Man, that He might deify us in Himself, and He has been born of a woman, and begotten of a Virgin in order to transfer to Himself our erring generation, and that we may become henceforth a holy race, and 'partakers of the Divine Nature,' as blessed Peter wrote. (2 Peter 1:4)-Athanasius, Letters of Athanasius, (Lx. Ad Adelphiun), 60.4; ibid., p. 576.

And John Calvin, a staunch Trinitarian:

"I said you are gods. Scripture gives the name of gods to those on whom God has conferred an honourable office. He whom God has separated, to be distinguished above all others is far more worthy of this honourable title ... The passage which Christ quotes is in Psalm lxxxii <82>, 6, I have said, You are gods, and all of you are children of the Most High; where God expostulates with the kings and judges of the earth, who tyrannically abuse the authority and power for their own sinful passions, for oppressing the poor, and for every evil action ... Christ applies this to the case in hand, that they receive the name of gods, be- cause they are God's ministers for governing the world. For the same reason Scripture calls the angels gods, because by them the glory of God beams forth on the world ... In short, let us know that magistrates are called gods, because God has given them authority."-John Calvin, Commentary on the Gospel According to John, p. 419, 20.


Plain and simple Doug, the title of G-d is not exclusive to the Almighty, nor is the name YHWH, as we can see beyond any reasonable doubt That both G-d and YHWH are used in reference to those who both speak for and represent G-d. Trinitarians galore agree. Why would they say this if it were not so? It cant be bias.

Regards,

Malachi