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TRINITARIAN challenge to Protestant Christians
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Re: TRINITARIAN challenge to Protestant Christians
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Re: TRINITARIAN challenge to Protestant Christians
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Tue, 6-Nov-07 17:26:29
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Chaim, that was a typically excellent, incisive response from you. Thank you very much for the reply.
Chaim ben Yaakov:
As for sacrifices and forgiveness/atonement, it was the act of obedience based on repentance along with the right attitude that caused one's sins to be atoned/forgiven. Not the animal.
Chaim,
it was both
. Yes, repentance has always been a critical part of atonement. But so was the sacrifice. If it wasn't, God wouldn't have required it in the Torah.
Chaim ben Yaakov:
Are you saying that if I understand I need christian salvation that things will just "work out" WRT how Jesus and God are related?
Well, sort of. I mean, I do think the New Testament is pretty clear about it... but it seems to be deliberately written in a way that leaves plenty of opportunity to persist in unbelief, much the same way an atheist can look at creation with unbelieving eyes.
But I guess what I'm really saying is - I think the more critical element of faith required here is one of unconditional surrender to Jesus. If a man does that, I don't think he is further required to explain the trinity to anyone. Everything he needs to know about the relationship between Jesus and the Father is safely planted in his heart.
Anyway, as it pertains to your original question, the point is - I think your focusing on what people recorded in documents in the few hundred years after Christ is pretty much a rabbit trail for you (to use your phrase), since the New Testament makes it clear enough - regardless of what the later "church fathers" may have written down.
Chaim ben Yaakov:
Does this mean that as long as I'm a professing believer, it doesn't really matter whether I think Jesus is God, inferior to God, part of God, etc.?
I wouldn't say that either. In fact, I've had this conversation with Jehovah's Witnesses. One day while chatting, it occurred to me that if it wasn't God on that cross, it was someone else. And even if that someone else was His Son, if that Son was not fully divine, fully One with the Father, then it was a different cross, and ultimately a different God.
As it is, the cross is the most consummate expression of who God is.
Still, this kind of knowledge is ultimately not part of the simple requirement for salvation, as verses like John 3:16 and Romans 10:9 show.
Chaim ben Yaakov:
Lastly, how do you define a christian heretic who professes belief in Jesus and does good works?
Well, I would urge them to re-think their theology, but as to the matter of their salvation, I would leave that in God's hands. And if their salavation was accompanied by the "works" known as the fruits of the Holy Spirit (Gal 5:22), I might conclude that they were in good Hands indeed.
Peace
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