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TRINITARIAN challenge to Protestant Christians
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Re: TRINITARIAN challenge to Protestant Christians
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MalachiII
Re: TRINITARIAN challenge to Protestant Christians
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Fri, 9-Nov-07 18:05:42
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Rebecca wrote: More unconnected verses by you. Actually Clement called believers g-ds as well!
We now look at Clement's writings:
EXHORTATION TO THE HEATHEN, CHAPTER I:
"Well, inasmuch as the Word was from the first, he was and is the divine source of all things... This Word, then, the Christ, the cause of both our being at first (for he was in God) and of our well-being, the very Word has now appeared as man; he alone being both god and man..."*
THE INSTRUCTOR, BOOK I:
Chapter 2: "Now, 0 you, my children, our instructor is like his Father, God, whose Son he is sinless, blameless and with a soul devoid of passion (a) god in the form of man... The Word who is (a) god, who is in the Father... and with the form of God is (a) god..."
Chapter 8: "But 'no one is good' except his (Jesus') Father."
THE STROMATA, BOOK 7:
Chapter 2: "For ignorance applies not to the god, who before the foundation of the world, was the counsellor of the Father. For he was 'wisdom'** in which the Sovereign God 'delighted'. For the Son is the power of God, as
being the Father's most ancient Word before the production of all things, and his wisdom."
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* Also in this chapter we read, "And now the Word himself clearly speaks to this, shaming thy unbelief; yea, I say, the Word of God became man that thou mayest learn from man how man may become (a) god." Clement thus does not limit the term "g-d" to the Father and the Son but extends it to believers. Irenaeus wrote similarly.
** See Proverbs 8:30.
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Clement of Alexandria argues that the Word was "in G-d" originally. This reminds us of Tatian who said that the Word was, at first, in G-d and then proceeded from G-d to assume his own unique identity. His being "G-d" or "a g-d" arises out of his being produced out of G-d. Furthermore, the Logos is identified with the "wisdom" mentioned' at Proverbs 8:22-31-and hence he is seen as having a beginning, a start. Clement of Alexandria, therefore, believed that Jesus' divinity came out of his being produced from G-d the Father; he held that Jesus had a beginning and on that basis, at least as a distinct "person", was not equal to the Father in time. Little is revealed about the Holy Spirit in all of this.
So, the desperation continues as the Trinitarians on this forum fail to show that the early Church Fathers believed in today's version of the Trinity. As it has been shown the Church Fathers believed that the Son was created by the Father and not part of a Trinity like the Trinitarians of today would have us believe.
regards,
Malachi
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