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Thu, 22-Nov-07 15:31:26
Quote:pensteel: God being beyond our comprehension actually does tell us something very important. If there is something that we can comprehend (by comprehend I mean that we can understand what it is for it to be) then that understandable thing is not God. Therefore, Jesus (being a man) is not God.
Quote:pensteel: Light that produces light is still light, however, the second light has a source for its being--the first light. Anything that relies on something else for its being is dependent on the source of its being, but the thing which is the source of another's being is not dependent on that which it produces. Therefore, the second light is dependent upon the first light. Jesus (if he is the light) is dependent but not equal to that from which he has his source of being. God, however, is independent, He is dependent on nothing and no one. Therefore, because God is independent but Jesus is dependent it is clear that Jesus is not God, for a thing cannot possess both independent and dependent being. A thing either owes its being to nothing or something. A being which owes its existence to something cannot be God as God's existence is dependent on nothing and no one.
Quote:pensteel: If infinity generates infinity where would the new infinity exist at? Also, how do you add onto infinity or take away from it? Anything with limitation in any way is finite. Since Jesus has a beginning, Jesus is finite.
Quote:pensteel: Even if you say that the "word" was born before all times...this does not remove it as a created and limited thing. It's source of being is still God and not itself. Therefore it is dependent on God. Because it is dependent on another for its being it cannot be identified as God, fore God's being is dependent on nothing and no one. I'm confused about your point concerning the word being divine as angels are divine--so what? No one would argue (I would think) that angels are infinite or are equal in any way to God. Even if God's "word" always was, this does not make it God. God's "word" is generated from God and therefore dependent on God.
Quote:ChaimAnd what's simple fact is that neither Josephus or Tacitus mention that Jews ever once believed that 1 = 3 or any other Trinitarian nonsense. As you'd see in this thread, both historians attest to Jewish uniform belief that God is one, period.
Quote:ChaimYour biblical interpretations are proven false according to what all Jews believed in Jesus' day about God's unity. Unless you're of the opinion that God revealed Himself differently when Jesus came, and therefore expected Jews to follow a god their fathers never knew.
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