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Wed, 9-Jan-08 17:54:44
Quote:MalachiThe above is not relevant to this discussion. I was studying the GT since I could read. I was a Trinitarian myself until I was about 26 years old and discovered thru studying the GT without the commentaries that G-d was not Triune.
Quote:Malachi: First, The word "all" can carry with it the understanding of exceptions to the ALL if the context demands it, (there are many examples of this) and this context clearly does since he is first of all revealed as a creation.Second, "Other" is a semantic part of "pas"(Greeek) according to context. As I said there are many examples of this. Col. 1:15 is one of those contexts. Now let's correctly translate this to english verse 15: he is a creation, and in verse 16: For by him were all (other) things created......all (other) things were created by him,for him; and verse 17: And he is before all (other) things, and by him all (other) things consist.
Quote:Malachi Do you agree then that wherever the phrase "firstborn OF something" is found that the firstborn is always a part of the group?
Quote:Malachi Even if a firstborn possess preeminence among the group and the heir, he is still a part of the group and he is still the first one born. There are no biblical exceptions. To deny the primary meaning of the word in regard to Jesus is pure bias at work..........The GT nor the Hebrew Bible calls YHWH the begining of the creation by G-d, where of where did you get that?Also Revelations 3:14, proves beyond doubt that the so called 2nd person of the Trinity is a creation by G-d.In fact, like I said before, wherever the phrase "beginning"(arche) OF something occurs, the beginning is always a part of the group or class. You have the same scenario here with "arche" as you have with "firstborn" in Colossians. Just as "firstborn"(prototokos), so it is with "arche"(beginning). If they are used with OF, then they are a PART of the same group or class as what follows the OF. Both in Colossians and Revelation, what follows the OF is CREATION.
Quote:MalachiI have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that the "firstborn OF something" is a member OF the SOMETHING.
Quote:Malachi The grammar employed in Col 1: verse 16 clearly shows Christ to be the instrument of creation employed by someone else, not the originator of creation. So your misunderstanding of the Greek continues.
Quote:Malachi:Prov 8 shows that this "production" was from times "earlier than the earth", so that could not apply to his becoming a son at Luke. You started with that and came up again with the doctrine of man claming it is the word of G-d.
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