ezAad wrote: We are not discussing chemistry. God can express Himself in human nature (man is created in the image of God) and He can guarantee there will be no mix of the two natures, yet a union


Malachi's response: Chemistry? You are the one saying that G-d became man in the person of Jesus and was both G-d and man by nature. The doctrine of the Trinity teaches just that unless you don't agree with other Trinitarians.

You said G-d can express himself in human nature, where is the scriptures is that explicity said Aad? It is just another invention of the Trinitarians. You begin with the definition of the Trinity to prove the Trinity. Why not let the scriptures themselves explain themselves. You believe in sola scripture don't you?

You go to to say He can guarantee there will be no mix of the two natures, yet a union.

Again your opinion, using the definition of the Trinity to prove a point. The scriptures say nothing about Jesus having two natures. Is there any where in the Hebrew Bible or GT that explicity says that anyone ever had two natures? Again another man made doctrine.

You said I don't see that. The apostles glorified God in Christ; they believed trinitarian; this is imv clear from the GT ( if you accept the testimony of the GT).

Malachi's response: Ah, so you once again have to presuppose Trinitarianism to make a point. To claim that the reason this scripture cant mean what I am saying it means is because the Apostles KNEW that the Trinity was true is NOTHING BUT ASSUMPTION and CIRCULARITY.

Where oh where does it say that the apostles believed that G-d was three persons in one substance or (G-d)? Please gives scriptures that say explicity that the Apostles believed in that. There is overwhelming evidence that the apostles and the Jews at that time believed ONLY the Father was G-d.

Aad read the following without using the definition of the Trinity to prove the Trinity.

John 17:3

1 Jesus spoke these things, and, raising his eyes to heaven, he said: Father, the hour has come; glorify your son, that your son may glorify you, 2 according as you have given him authority over all flesh, that, as regards the whole whom you have given him, he may give them everlasting life. 3 This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ.

Are there any unambiguous elements of this clear teaching that the Father is the ONLY true G-d? Would not ONLY exclude others, such as the one mentioned in the same context with Him, the one sent forth, Jesus?

Aad the straight unambiguous statement made by Jesus that the Father is the ONLY true G-d. "Only" is a word that denotes exclusiveness within the context that it is used. In this context, it clearly excludes the Son from being the ONLY true G-d.

Also Aad, the gospel was written to try to convert Jews to Christianity he was telling them TOO that the Father was the ONLY true G-d. The Jews only believed in the Father, they had no knowledge of a Trinitarian G-dhead. If they were supposed to accept and take in knowledge of the Son and Holy Spirit as that SAME only true G-d then Jesus mistated and misrepresented what they needed to do, and of course he removed himself from the designation of ONLY true G-d when he placed himself outside that title as the one sent forth BY that ONLY true G-d, the Father.

ezAad wrote: The Hebrew Bible cannot prove the Trinity; I give you that. But imv there is enough data in the Tanach that points to or confirms a trinitarian concept of God. See my earlier posts.
The explicit formulation of the doctrine is from the 4th century; it is not "invented" in the 4th century.

Malachi's response: More baseless statements without any explicit scriptures to back it up. Aad, instead of statements of belief, please provide the scriptures to back it up.

BTW Aad, you never overturned the fact that Colossians 1:15 and Revelations 3:14 both state that Jesus, your second person of the Trinity was believed to be a created being by the Church and the Apostles. And before I forget Proverbs 8:22 says explicity that he was created! That is also the viewpoint of the Church Fathers.


Regards,
Malachi