Thomas,

What really leads you to believe 1 of the 3, or all 3 men in Genesis 18 were "God" in the flesh? The NT doesn't teach this, does it? No Jews from Jesus' time period taught it (Josephus, Philo, Targums Jonathan and Onkelos). So what makes you believe it's so? Can you admit you could be wrong about this, and the other so-called "theophanies", none of which are taught by any early Jewish sources? At least admit the Rabbis didn't make up stuff against theophanies post-Jesus or the 2nd Temple.

No, I do not agree with that last statment. The NT already tells us that the Jews who did not believe in Jesus were trying to kill the apostles, (and Peter was rescued by an angel) especially the Sadducces who did not want to admit a resurrection. The NT makes clear what they taught, since Paul, James and Peter were in complete agreement on all points of doctrine, and it was not and is not idolatrous, in spite of how many Jews have interpreted this. The NT records that thousands of Jews accepted the message of Jesus in the first century. If you don't believe the NT, I am not prepared to prove it from other documents as I just explained. I am only here prepared to defend the NT against misunderstandings.

Maybe you missed the quote from Josephus, but he wrote that all Jews were of one accord on God and His nature - as opposed to the nations of that time period who couldn't agree amongst themselves about their own gods (sound familiar?).

And this very thing it is that principally creates such a wonderful agreement of minds amongst us all; for this entire agreement of ours in all our notions concerning God, and our having no difference in our course of life and manners, procures among us the most excellent concord of these our manners that is any where among mankind; for no other people but the Jews have avoided all discourses about God that any way contradict one another, which yet are frequent among other nations; and this is true not only among ordinary persons, according as every one is affected, but some of the philosophers have been insolent enough to indulge such contradictions, while some of them have undertaken to use such words as entirely take away the nature of God, as others of them have taken away his providence over mankind.

Nor can any one perceive amongst us any difference in the conduct of our lives, but all our works are common to us all.

We have one sort of discourse concerning God, which is conformable to our law, and affirms that he sees all things; as also we have but one way of speaking concerning the conduct of our lives, that all other things ought to have piety for their end; and this any body may hear from our women, and servants themselves.


Josephus, Against Apion II:179-80 or book 2, chapter 20


Was Josephus wrong? Did Jews not all have the same perception of God? Why would he lie about all Jews having the same notion of God?

This quote from Josephus is quite damaging to Trinitarian claims.

None of the earliest Jewish writings mention a trinity or theophanies. Jews simply didn't see God in those terms, and we still don't today. There's just no way on earth James and Peter could have survived and made thousands of Trinitarian Jewish converts for as long as they did. This wouldn't have been tolerated.

The reason James and Peter were tolerated for so long should be quite obvious to you. They were never Trinitarians and did not teach about Jesus' divinity. Jews didn't mind that they believed Jesus was Messiah. There have been plenty of false Jewish Messiahs, and the Jews who believed in these Messianic pretenders were never persecuted by the rest of world Jewry. Same here WRT Jesus's Jewish followers.

Peter and James never taught about theophanies or trinities. This would have been foreign to them and Jesus.

Now you can go along and faithfully believe whatever you'd like (without either biblical or historical support) but realize that the testimony of the entire Jewish nation - and evidence that comes straight from that very time period - shows Jews have good reason to believe trinities and theophanies were never part of Kosher Judaism - and certainly not "hidden" or "covered up" due to some "evil Rabbinic conspiracy" which came about as a direct result of Jesus and his followers or the 2nd Temple falling.

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"He who saves one life... it is as if he saves an entire universe. He who destroys a life... it is as if he destroys an entire universe"

TALMUD - Sanhedrin 4:5

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