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Uri, I would like to make a conceptual distinction. In our minds that is not what we try to do, "conversion" is not the objective. I have never tried to "convert" anyone to Christianity. I have, do, and will try to get people "saved".



How is getting people "saved" NOT conversion??? The Goal is to get them to convert to xianity.. That's CONVERSION. YOu're playing polemic playdoh here and don't think the people here are so stupid as to see through your feeble excuse. You are here for a conversion campaign and you will fail. Your view of both JUDAISM and the TANAKH have been proven to be incorrect, but still you come back and parrot the same arguments all over again. Regurgitating and recycling them will not garner you a different answer so you can then say "AHA! but previously you said...". You're trying to trip up the moderators and participants here, but the Tanakh says what it says.



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Catholics, I do believe, seek converts to Roman Catholicism - they don't say convert to Christianity, but to Catholicism.


Um, contrary to your elitist view of who is and isn't a xian, Catholicism IS xianity, in fact, one with over 1 billion adherants and is the largest sect in xianity. And just remember, Dougg, were it not for those heinous catholics, you wouldn't be a xian. And furthermore, the Catholic church, despite its bloody, vile, murderous history, is actually more enlightened (for the moment) in that it does NOT seek conversions of Jews. In fact, it is now against church law to actively seek to convert Jews. How wonderful it would be if your Protestant branches would follow suit.





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Conversion is trying to get a person to switch "religions". Like when Jews accept "converts", because Judaism is not a religion whose goal is eternal life by salvation. You guys assume everyone has eternal life.



Jews don't actively seek converts. And Judaism is a religion within a People/Nation. And again, for your information, it is not an assumption that all have eternal life. It's in the passages of the Torah. If you can't accept that, that's YOUR problem. You can't seem to tolerate anything that smacks against your view that xianity is the sole truth of god. Remember, you're a guest on this forum. It would help you to remember that. It is not up for you to decide whether or not Judaism is true or false based on xianity. Long after xianity fades, Judaism and the Jews will remain.




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For evangelicals, just the opposite, we believe that man lost that disposition in the garden of eden. Thus, our goal is "salvation" to eternal life, based upon a person could die any second, and "salvation' of their soul is in that understanding, the only thing that matters in a person's life. So in our mind, when someone accepts Jesus as Lord and Saviour, it is that they are saved, not converted.


Spare us the poo-poo platter of rationalization. It's CONVERSION.. period. SAved, converted, completed, renewed, whatever, it's a missionizing schtick. It's Conversion. Call it for what it really is. And to try to "save" someone Jewish, it's apostasy and idolatry. Call it for what it really is.




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Evangelicals, when talking with one another, giving their personal testimony, they don't talk about when they converted to Christianity, but when they were "saved" which always is by their direct sinner's prayer to God, accepting Jesus as their personal savior. Not when they joined a Church or chose to adopt Christianity to be their religion or theology. Judaism is not the same, because Judaism is not based upon a single person as Saviour, but Laws. Judaism's made up Noahidism is the same, but less of them.



Is that the reason why the Evangelicals are spending millions of dollars (2.5 million last year) to convert Jews under the guise of "messianic Judaism-- aka Christianity in a kippa"??? And isn't it true that most conversions have little to do with logic but rather emotion? Behind every "saved" story is an emotional chasm or some emotional crisis that only "jeesus" could fulfill .

As for your claim that Judaism is not based on a savior.. you need to stop, step back and back off. That is simply NOT true. G_D ALONE is Israel's Savior. Jews do not need a Mitras/Apollo knock off to save them. They have and always will have G-d as their Savior and "savior" in the Jewish sense (which you choose to ignore and denigrade) is not someone who dies or has this blood-letting on the part of another. It would you do you well to actually learn something before you denigrade Judaism again and I admonish the moderators to call you on the carpet on this as you NEVER miss an opportunity to degrade Judaism!! In addition, the Noahide laws are NOT made up! You've had this explained to you ad nauseum. EITHER get it or LEAVE!



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Given your Judaism paradigm, I can understand how you would phrase what we seek as being "conversion" to Christianity. But really what we seek is to get people "saved".



OH PLEASE!!!! It's getting people to leave their own religion, faith, sense of who G-d is and accept YOURS. THAT IS CONVERSION! I won't even addressed 'saved from what or FOR what". That's not the scope. So stop the whole polemic play-doh rhetoric and nonsensical word-play and kindly call it what it is!