Dougg:

This was discussed before and still you keep regurgitating the same old rhetoric.

NOTHING in Ezekiel or in Zechariah screams of Jeesus. NOTHING. This nonsense is getting old and more you spew it out, the more it becomes clear that you're willfully being argumentative and obstinate.

The word "pierce" doesn't even appear in the translated Hebrew of the Tankah. It reads "run through" NOT pierced. It's not talking of Jeesus so will you please give it up!!!

Here's what the text says from the Chabad.org online Tanakh: Zechariah 12:


Quote:
1. The prophecy of the word of the Lord concerning Israel: Says the Lord, Who stretches out the heavens and founds the earth and forms the spirit of man within him:
2. Behold! I am making Jerusalem a cup of weakness for all the peoples around, and also on Judah, [that he] shall be in the siege against Jerusalem.
3. And it shall come to pass on that day that I will make Jerusalem a stone of burden for all peoples; all who bear it shall be gashed, and all the nations of the earth shall gather about it.
4. On that day, says the Lord, I will smite every horse with bewilderment, and its rider with madness. And upon the house of Judah I will open My eyes, and all the horses of the peoples I will smite with blindness.
5. And the princes of Judah shall say to themselves, "The inhabitants of Jerusalem were my strength through the Lord of Hosts, their God."
6. On that day I will make the princes of Judah as a fiery stove among wood, and as a brand of fire among sheaves. And they shall consume on the right and on the left all the nations round about, and Jerusalem shall still stay in its place in Jerusalem.
7. And the Lord shall first save the tents of Judah, so that the boasting of the house of David and the boasting of the inhabitants of Jerusalem shall not increase over Judah.
8. On that day the Lord shall protect the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and the weakest of them shall be, on that day, like David. And the house of David shall be like angels, like the angel of the Lord before them.
9. And it shall come to pass on that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come upon Jerusalem.
10. And I will pour out upon the house of David and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplications. And they shall look to me because of those who have been thrust through [with swords], and they shall mourn over it as one mourns over an only son and shall be in bitterness, therefore, as one is embittered over a firstborn son.
11. On that day there shall be great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the Valley of Megiddon.
12. And the land shall mourn, every family apart: The family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart.
13. The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of the Shimeites apart, and their wives apart.
14. All the remaining families-every family apart, and their wives apart.


This was explained to you. This is not about Jeesus.. however the next chapter would be:


Quote:
On that day, a spring shall be opened for the house of David and for the inhabitants of Jerusalem, for purification and for sprinkling.
2. And it shall come to pass on that day, says the Lord of Hosts: I will cut off the names of the idols from the earth, and they shall no longer be mentioned. And also the prophets and the spirit of contamination I will remove from the earth.
3. And it shall come to pass, if a man still prophesies, that his father and his mother-his parents-shall say to him, "You shall not live, for you have spoken falsely in the name of the Lord." And his father and his mother-his parents-shall thrust him through because of his prophesying.
4. And it shall come to pass on that day that the prophets shall be ashamed, each one of his vision when he prophesies; and they will not wear a hairy mantle in order to lie.
5. And he shall say, "I am not a prophet! I am a tiller of the soil, for a man entrusted me with his cattle from my youth."
6. And one will say to him, "What are these wounds between your hands?" And he shall say, "That I was smitten in the house of my friends."
7. O sword, awaken against My shepherd and against the man who is associated with Me! says the Lord of Hosts. Smite the shepherd, and the flock shall scatter, and I will return My hand upon the little ones.
8. And it shall come to pass throughout all the land, says the Lord, two parts of it shall be cut off. They shall perish, and the third shall remain therein.
9. And I will bring the third in fire; and I will refine them as one refines silver, and I will test them as one tests gold. He shall call in My name, and I will respond to him. I said, "He is My people"; and he shall say, "The Lord is my God."


So, as it was explained before, all the names of idols, including jeesus, will no longer be mentioned.

The NT is just trying to force itself into the Hebrew Text, but it's not. "pierced" is NOT used. I'll leave this to UriYosef to define and delineate as he knows the Hebrew much better than I. EVEN IF "pierced" is used, do you think that Jeesus as the ONLY one in Israel during the Roman Tyranny that was pierced? We won't even go into what was done to the poor martyrs of the Jewish people or what ghastly acts the Romans did against Rabbi Akiva and Bar Kochba (who was more of a Messianic candidate than Jeesus EVER was purported to be). If we're playing projection with the Holy Scripture, I would think that the text is speaking about those martyrs than about Jeesus.. but that's NOT what the Text is talking about.

Per Rashi's commentary on this, again from Chabad.org Tanakh with Commentary:


Quote:
a spirit of grace and supplications>: That it should come into their mind to supplicate Me, and they will be in My good graces.
[b]a spirit:[/b] Talant in Old French, a desire.

[b]they shall look to Me because of those who have been thrust through[/b]

Jonathan renders: And they shall supplicate Me because of their wanderings. And they shall look to Me to complain about those of them whom the nations thrust through and slew during their exile.

and they shall mourn over it]
Over that slaughter.

[b]as one mourns over an only son:[/b]

As a man mourns over his only son. And our Sages expounded this in tractate Sukkah (52a) as referring to the Messiah, son of Joseph, who was slain.

[b]like the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the Valley of Megiddon[/b]


Hadadrimmon has no connection to the Valley of Megiddon. These are, rather, two cases of mourning. [The first is] like the mourning of Ahab the son of Omri, who was slain by Hadadrimmon the son of Tabrimmon in Ramoth Gilead, as it is stated (I Kings 22:36): A cry passed through the camp. That is the mourning [of Ahab. The second case is] like the mourning of Josiah the son of Amon, who was slain by Pharoah the lame in the Valley of Megiddon, as it is stated (II Chron. 35:25): And Jeremiah lamented for Josiah, and all the singing men and singing women spoke in their laments, etc.



Your projecting from the NT onto the Tanakh is forced at best. Again, Zechariah continues this message of first the destruction of Israel's enemies and the eradication of idolatry and obliteration of the names of these idols (including false so-called "sons" and "prophets" of god) from Israel.

Your opinion:


Quote:
John, in John 19:37, established that Jesus was pierced. So that when Zechariah 12:10 happens, then it ties the crucifixion of Jesus when he was pierced, as being the same Jesus who will return in Revelation 1:17.


He didn't establish. He propositioned this. It is NOT borne out in the REAL prophet Zechariah who describes the messiah ben yosef as being killed in battle; a casualty of the final Battle between the Nations and Israel. This has NOTHING to do with a supposed Second Coming because the "hero" ends up being killed (according to commentary on the wording of the Text) and Israel will mourn him and their dead.

In addition, John did NOT have access to either the writings of the Prophets of Zechariah or Ezekiel. Not once in any of his prior writings attributed to him did he ever reference the Tanakh. Any "foreshadowing" on his part was conjecture. In any event, it's immaterial as the Prophets say what they say and they never mention Jeesus.

So this "proof text insertion" that the Prophets are talking about some figure who is not even on the radar of Jewish erudition is forced and is really just wishful thinking.