I am just getting to this: "If Jesus knew in advance what would happen in his name, then he is far and away the most evil ba$tard who ever lived on this planet, bar none, and eternal hellfire wouldn't be enough for him."

You know, Chaim, putting a symbol in place of the S does not make it any less harsh of an insult. If I used that kind of language to refer to any rabbi of Judaism (not that I would want to), Uri would have me out on my ear, but somehow, you can use that language to refer to my Savior and the moderators don't utter a peep of reproof.


Thomas,
I don't believe Jesus knew a thing about the future and I'm certain he wouldn't recognize your beliefs and practices as anything remotely close to what he taught. I made a conditional statement only. Surely, you'd agree that if YOU lived 2000 years ago and knew that YOUR harsh words against a people would be used in a VERY bad way against them by your followers - and you did NOTHING to try to stop their satanic deeds - that would make YOU a very bad person. If it were me and I did or said nothing, knowing the future "fruits" of my condemnations and rants against a certain people, I would certainly have to be labeled the most evil and wicked ba$tard of all time. What's difficult about this?

You are trying to trap me, just like certain ones of Jesus' day did to him, between two supposedly untenable alternatives. Either Jesus did not know what would happen, which means he was a mere, ignorant man, or he did know what would happen, which allegedly means he was worse than a criminal, since eternal hellfire is not enough for him. That from a Jew who claims to believe that eternal hellfire is too bad a punishment for any man. Either you need to retract that statement or give me a revised account of your beliefs.

You take me too literally. I don't believe in eternal hellfire. But whatever the punishment, it could not be severe enough - especially if I were to put myself into Jesus' shoes and I do or say nothing to try to prevent a terrible future based on my rantings and ravings.

Well, I am not trapped. Jesus did know what would happen, using his name, just as HaShem knew what the Babylonians would do to the babies of King Zedekiah's day (Psalm 137:8-9), in the name of Ha Shem (II Kings 18:25, referring to the Assyrians, who committed horrible atrocities in Israel and Judah before they were stopped at Jerusalem, and Jeremiah 50:7 to the Babylonians, thanks again for the reference). In trying to attack Jesus, you have just found yourself with a powerful lot of teshuvah to do, in my opinion.

What do your examples have to do with Jesus? Are we to infer that the Babylonian or Assyrian gods should have warned those people not to be bad against other people like Jews? Should we be asking if the Babylonian gods knew the future? They knew as much as Jesus did - ie, nothing.

Gideon Mage put it very well:

Matthew 65:3-
"And Jesus turned to a child, and patted it gently on the head, and said, 'Be warned, all of you. In the future my followers will take over entire cities and countries. Anyone who harms a child, or a Jew, or a Gentile, in my name, shall suffer the most horrible wrath of Hashem."

Luke 75:4 "The Jews are still my people. Whosoever harms even one hair on the head of a Jew in my name shall burn in the deepest fires of Gehenna for eternity. Yea, there shall be no mercy for him that harms anyone, Jew or Gentile, in my name, for all human life is sacred to hashem."

Paul's 14th letter to the Ephesians, banned for 17 centuries: "Lo, the spirit of the Christ came to me in a dream today. He told me to warn you. The spreaders of this new faith and new gospel must spare the Hebrews, and not interfere with their ways, for my new covenant is for the Gentiles only."


Do you not agree that JUST these inclusions would have been enough to prevent untold millions of senseless murders? This is not to say no murders in Jesus' name would have happened, but you'd have to admit most would have been avoided. Jesus would have done his job had he known in advance.

Put yourself in Jesus or Paul's shoes. How can you NOT include such safeguards if you know the future?

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"He who saves one life... it is as if he saves an entire universe. He who destroys a life... it is as if he destroys an entire universe"

TALMUD - Sanhedrin 4:5

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