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Why didn't Yeshu know about the future?
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Re: Why didn't Yeshu know about the future?
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Thomas
Re: Why didn't Jsus know about the future?
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Sun, 23-Dec-07 17:46:30
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Chaim,
If you believe that Jesus is a liar because you misunderstand his statements, then this is a conditional judgment that, although erroneous, is not an attack on the real person, since Jesus did not really say what you think he said. On the other hand, if you say that Jesus is evil because of something he actually did, then this is an attack on the real person, from my point of view, and it cannot be excused on the basis that it is conditional. Uri threatened to ban me for accusing someone on this forum of criminal speech, which is in the first category, similar to you accusing Jesus of being a liar. Uri didn't like what I said, and feels that it is baseless because the person was not guilty. Fine. Now how would it be if I said that another person would be worse than a prostitute if the person actually had participated in a certain kind of ceremony, for example (please notice: I am not actually saying this)? Do you see that it wouldn't matter if I didn't believe that the person had actually participated? If you knew that she did participate and approved of that participation, then my accusation would be immediately out of the conditional category, in your point of view, and my charge would be much more serious because it would have been against the actual person. I believe that you are running a double standard on this forum if a person can be banned for making a sincere charge that you believe is baseless, while you not only can make similar charges against someone I love like "Jesus is a liar", but you can make a much more serious charge based on what I believe is true, then excuse it for being conditional.
I am disappointed not only with the moderators here, which are supposed to include several rabbis, but also for the other Christians who don't seem to be aware of Leviticus 19:17-18 " ... You shall surely rebuke your fellow..." as well as Luke 17:3 "...If your brother sins against you, rebuke him..." I got censored one time here for using this "r" word. I assume that you won't censor the Bible.
Now, I notice that in your answer you missed the point of my statement that HaShem knew what would be done wrongly in His Name. Of course I am not suggesting that the Babylonian idols should have warned their worshipers. I am asking why Ha Shem didn't do something to stop the Babylonians. He certainly knew what would happen, and the breath of every man is in His hand. You are basically leveling the argument of the "problem of evil" against Jesus, the same argument that atheists have leveled against HaShem for centuries. Is he omnipotent/omniscient AND benevolent? Then why is there evil? You not only quote agnostics and atheists in your attacks on the New Testament, but you are also using their same arguments in your own words. If you are upset with the idea of Jesus not including some convenient and supposedly effective phrase to stop the Christians from persecuting the Jews, what are you going to say when you ask yourself why Ha Shem didn't strike Hitler and his goons dead like He did for Jehoshaphat and Hezekiah? Watch that you don't undercut your own faith in your zeal to destroy the New Testament faith.
I repeat that Jesus knew what people would do wrongly using his name, and I agree with Folah that if someone is dead set on doing the wrong thing, they will not let facts get in their way. I mean, look how many people still think that it is wrong to rebuke someone, when it is an explicit command in both Tanach and the NT, a part of loving your neighbor as yourself.
As for Gideon Mage's "masterpiece" additions to the NT, they aren't there because they don't belong there.
"Matthew 65:3-
And Jesus turned to a child, and patted it gently on the head, and said, 'Be warned, all of you. In the future my followers will take over entire cities and countries. Anyone who harms a child, or a Jew, or a Gentile, in my name, shall suffer the most horrible wrath of Hashem."
This would make Jesus a liar. Anyone who has taken over a city or country has not been a follower of Jesus. They might have been a believer in Jesus in a certain way, but they certainly were not following Jesus' instructions. I already pointed out that Jesus clearly said that many would falsely come in his name. Matthew 7:21-23 covers that well. When Jesus referred to the phrase "Depart from me" that means depart to face the horrible wrath of HaShem. Luke 17:2 is extremely graphic, unless you think that it would be a piece of cake to get dragged down to the depths by a stone around your neck, for just causing a little one to stumble. The next thing we will see claimed here is that Jesus' statements are too harsh, after blaming him for not being harsh enough..
"Luke 75:4 The Jews are still my people. Whosoever harms even one hair on the head of a Jew in my name shall burn in the deepest fires of Gehenna for eternity. Yea, there shall be no mercy for him that harms anyone, Jew or Gentile, in my name, for all human life is sacred to hashem."
The Jews are still God's people. That is in Romans 11:1, 28-29, covered very explicitly. The rest is ridiculous exaggeration, and this would surely get Nehemiah in trouble because he ripped out a whole bunch of Jewish hair in the name of HaShem (Nehemiah 13:25). And how about all of those stonings that occurred in the name of HaShem. Or how about all of those Moabites that David killed? Boy, don't you wish these verses were actually in the NT? They would be a bunch more to poke fun at and you would have a better case with these.
"Paul's 14th letter to the Ephesians, banned for 17 centuries: "Lo, the spirit of the Christ came to me in a dream today. He told me to warn you. The spreaders of this new faith and new gospel must spare the Hebrews, and not interfere with their ways, for my new covenant is for the Gentiles only."
The last clause is just plain false and would have contradicted the message of the NT as well as Jeremiah 31. As for sparing the Hebrews and not interfering with their ways, I think that "... peace and mercy be on them and on the Israel of God." from Galatians 6:16 is quite clearly sufficient. However, if someone is bound and determined to do wrong they won't let mere facts or statements stop them. I certainly do not believe that these statements by Gideon Mage would have done a beneficial thing. In the end, we will find that it couldn't have been said better than the NT already does. I teach pro-Jewishness from the NT as my ex-radically Jew-hating Muslim, now Christian, friend Khaled does and it is as easy as falling off a log.
Now if you want to prove that you Jews are not anything like those "phony caricatures" of Jews referred to in the NT, then I suggest that you refrain from saying anything like they did, such as in John 8:48. The term Samaritan that they applied to Jesus there directly implies bastard since they knew his mother was a Jew and was not married to any non-Jew.
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