Folah -

Quote:
I am not a language expert/historian and don't know what language "sabachthani" is but I TRUST the UNIVERSALLY AGREED english interpretation.


It's not a word in any language.

The Hebrew is:

ELI ELI LAMA AZAVTANI

The Aramaic is written as:

ELI ELI M'TUL MAH SH'VAQTANI

You aren't trusting a "unversally agreed upon english interpretation" of "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani", you are trusting Matthew and Mark's interpretations.


Quote:
Matthew 27:46
46. About the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"


Quote:
Mark 15:34
34. And at the ninth hour Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?"which means, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"


"My G-d, My G-d, why have you forsaken me" is indeed a universally agreed upon English translation of the actual original Hebrew of the Psalm of David (Psalm 22), and of the Aramaic Targum of the same verse.

However, the word used by both gospels is not an actual Hebrew, nor Aramaic word. If one tried to argue Yeshu was speaking Hebrew, they would be wrong because "sabachthani" is not a Hebrew word. If one tried to argue Yeshu was speaking Aramaic, they would be wrong because "sabachthani" is also not an Aramaic word (and I am pretty sure "lamah" is not used in Aramaic).

The "quote" of Psalm 22 in Mark and Matthew is a mixture of Hebrew, and a gibberish non-word, which - even if it was meant to be some kind of transliteration of SH'VAQTANI" - is not itself an actual word in either language. You could expect such carelessness by a Greek translator unfamiliar with Hebrew/Aramaic, but not someone claiming to be "G-d in the flesh".

You are not trusting "universally agreed upon interpretation" of the phrase stated in Mark and Matthew, you are trusting the interpretations of Mark and Matthew, who tell you it is a real word, and it means that all within the span of one verse. The "quote" and "interpretation/translation" both appear within the span of the same verse. This is completely circular.

It is equivilent to if I were to say:

"And he cried out saying, 'Bereshit bara Elo-im et hasemaja v'et ha'arets' which means 'In the beginning G-d created the heavens and the earth'."

Whether intentionally or unintentionally, I would be misleading you in saying the first translates to the second. Sure, you would know that "In the beginning G-d created the heavens and the earth" is Genesis 1, and thus - as you have done with Yeshu - you could/would conclude I am right, and that I am correctly quoting it just because I told you so, as you believe Yeshu was quoting Psalm 22 because Mark and Matthew tell you so.

Sure, the Hebrew original of Genesis 1 translates to "In the beginning G-d created the heavens and the earth", but the Hebrew original is "Bereshit bara Elo-im et hashamayim v'et ha'arets" not "Bereshit bara Elo-im et hasemaja v'et ha'arets".

The first is the legitimate word (hashamayim). The second is completely non-sensical, even if it was intended to look like the real Aramaic word (sh'maya) which appears in the Aramaic Targum Onkelos. The fact is I tried to insert an Aramaic word into an otherwise entirely Hebrew sentence, and I butchered it at that by spelling it incorrectly, along with other errors which make it neither a good Hebrew nor Aramaic rendering.

Similarly, "azavtani" is the correct word in Psalm 22 of the Hebrew, while "sabachthani" is not a real Hebrew or Aramaic word, let alone does it appear in even the Aramaic of Psalm 22. Even if it was intended to be the Aramaic word "sh'vaqtani" (which is speculative apologetics at best), either the speaker - Yeshu - or the authors - Mark, and Matthew - butchered it, along with inserting it into an otherwise entirely Hebrew sentence.

You are right, you are not a history or language expert. And you are relying on authors of the GT that twist, misquote, and mistranslate the Hebrew Bible for your "interpretations". Whether a mistake on the part of Yeshu, or a mistake on the part of the two gospel authors "quoting him", "sabachthani" is absolutely, 100%, a mistake, and doesn't represent the Hebrew nor the Aramaic of Psalm 22.

As an aside, it is perposterous that anyone - except perhaps some unlearned gentiles - would think that Yeshu would be "calling Elijah" by quoting Psalm 22.


Quote:
Mark 15:35-36
35. When some of those standing near heard this, they said, "Listen, he's calling Elijah."
36. One man ran, filled a sponge with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink. "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to take him down," he said.


Quote:
Matthew 27:47-49
47. When some of those standing there heard this, they said, "He's calling Elijah."
48. Immediately one of them ran and got a sponge. He filled it with wine vinegar, put it on a stick, and offered it to Jesus to drink.
49. The rest said, "Now leave him alone. Let's see if Elijah comes to save him."


Anyway Folah, you can convince yourself of anything you'd like to believe. You can convince yourself that G-d is a flying spaghetti monster if you'd like, but believing and having support from the Tanach/being right are two different things. You do not have support from the Hebrew Bible nor from history here.

Netanel