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Posts: 7963
Wed, 18-May-11 14:56:18
I challenged mark to say where Yoshke said he was “the Messiah of Yisrael” and mark responded with
mark wrote:I can think of a couple: Mark 14:62 and John 4:25.
Considering each of these in turn,
1) Marcus 14:62—Yoshke has been asked in 14:61 if he is “the Mashiyaḥ, the ‘son of the blessed’ ”. Now, firstly, there is no expression in Jewish literature that has the meaning of “the son of the blessed” and, if “the blessed” is supposed to refer to God, such a concept would be blasphemous in Jewish thought and something that no Jew would ever say. But more importantly, and assuming that Yoshke wasn’t actually speaking in Greek and the Greek words reported as his in the Marcus 14:62 are just a translation, what can he actually have said? Ἐγώ means “I” and εἰμι means “am” but neither Hebrew nor Aramaic has a word for am. So it is impossible for him to have responded to the question he had been asked with the words “I am”. This is a point that the overwhelming majority of christians—who cannot speak word one of Hebrew—will be totally oblivious of. But one thing is absolutely certain: he does not say in the cited verse that he was “the Messiah of Yisrael”, or even any other “Messiah”.2) Yoḥanan 4:25—Again one verse earlier, a woman from Shomron has said to him (in paraphrase) “I know that a Messiah is coming and that, when he comes, he will explain all these things for us”. And what is Yoshke’s reply? He says ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ λαλῶν σοι, which REALLY means “I am the one speaking to you”. It is wholly dishonest of the various translators to morph this enigmatic statement into “I who am speaking to you am he”. The truth is that he never claimed explicitly to be “the Messiah” or even, when asked, explicitly confirmed that such was his claim; and he wouldn’t even confirm explicitly that he was claiming King David’s throne for, when asked by Pilatus if he was the king of the Jews, the only answer he gave was Σὺ λέγεις, “That’s what you say!”
mark also wrote:What sort of "blaze of publicity" was there when Elisha raised the child of the Shunammite woman from the dead in 2 Kings 4:32?
How many people have you ever head of who worship that child as a “messiah” and a “god”? Does anyone even know his name? That nameless and unknown child is hardly comparable to Yoshke!
mark wrote:I never heard that expression before - "telling porkies".
You have never heard that expression before because it’s ENGLISH, not American. “Porky” is short for “pork pie”, which is an example of “rhyming slang”. In rhyming slang (a form of slang commonly used by the “cockneys” of London’s “East End”), the second word of a two word term is never actually spoken—one needs to know that a “porky” is a “pork PIE” and hence a “porky” is a “lie” because “pie” rhymes with “lie”.
http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל
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