Sophiee1 wrote:
We have years of history with you showing your true colors -- and you make them clear in your profile on Yuku.
For the record, because you feel it is acceptable to drag my wife into these discussions based on my profile, I've changed my profile. I hereby officially request that you do not discuss her religious status on this forum. It's private information that I no longer wish to share with the public. Let's just have our discussions of scripture and leave the poor girl out of it. Okay?
Sophiee1 wrote:
if indeed you are innocent and simply want to know the answer -- then be OPEN to the answer (whether you agree with it or not). Otherwise why shouldn't I doubt your motives?
Hey, I AM "open to the answer". I don't just cover my ears and close my eyes - I read your words carefully and then give detailed responses that provide what I consider to be reasonable questions about your explanations. Most of the time, I think it comes down to interpretation (I realize that you disagree with this assessment as well, since you believe this is all "black and white"). In the current case, God clearly says He is angry, just as He clearly says He does not change. So there's a mystery to be pondered. Your solution is to write off one of those statements as allegory. Sorry, but that doesn't sound "black and white" to me. My rejection of that solution does not mean that I'm not "open". I simply find that to be an unsatisfactory solution, mostly because God does not say it's allegory.
Sophiee1 wrote:
The point that you miss -- and it applies directly to G-d not changing -- is that by taking the simplistic approach that there was light as in sunlight one is totally misreading the Jewish bible. This is just as true for those who read that G-d created the world in 6 yom and then say it was 6 24-hour days although (again) there was not yet a 24 hour day!!!
I realize that the sun was apparently not created until "day 4". Therefore, I don't know how long the first 4 days really were. However, we are talking about an omnipotent God. For all we know, He could have planted the fossil record. (I don't think He did, but He could have.)

The point is - there is nothing in the creation account that says it's an allegory, or that it's anything other than an account of physical creation. Since we don't have scripture that tells us otherwise, I take the text at face value: God said "let there be light", and there was light. It doesn't say "good", it says "light".

But getting back to the discussion at hand, it doesn't help your position even if it was speaking of something allegorical. Whatever it was that God created in that moment, the Torah records the words that God used to do it. And until we have something that tells us that God spoke to Moses in a language other than Hebrew, I take that at face value too. There is nothing in that account that tells us that human language fails to capture the thought, just as there is certainly nothing that tells us that when God said He was angry, He wasn't really angry. I take the text at face value.
Sophiee1 wrote:
G-d doesn't have the wings of a vulture. G-d does not have 7 eyes. These are terms used in the T'nach to describe something in a way that people can relate to what is being written.
So you say! How do you know this? How do you know that the physical realm is more real than the spirit realm? Again, I take the text at face value. I will not begin to attempt to describe God, other than to quote scripture. And again, if the things God spoke in scripture aren't really true, then what are we supposed to do with a book like that?
Sophiee1 wrote:
When we say that G-d became angry, or G-d "acted" -- to us there was a change (e.g., the Red Sea parted) -- but this is all seen from the perspective of man -- not the perspective of G-d.
Okay... excellent. I'm very OPEN to this interpretation. It's a very cool concept indeed... mind-blowing, actually. But here's the thing... unfortunately, you've also just connected the dots to my "agenda".

I'll just leave it at that.

Oops... sorry - meant to say that I don't cover my "ears", not my "years" - although sometimes I wouldn't mind that either. :)

Note: Forum rules require me to make the following disclaimer.

This post is not Jewish teaching, rather it is Mark's personal opinion as a non-Jew.


Last Edited By: UriYosef Sun, 3-Feb-13 12:14:38. Edited 2 times.