Mark:

And yet you still miss the boat.  My posts wouldn't have been so verbose if you would have simply answered the questions and stopped trying to convince us that Jeesus is  a part of our (Jewish) tradition and our (Jewish) Hebrew Scriptures.  If my posts are seen as "negative", well, then good...  you're finally getting the message that your concepts regarding miracles, Jeesus and such are anathema to both Judaism and to G-d Himself (per His commandments on such issues).   Kudos to comprehension!

Simply put, your man-god is not the G-d of the Torah. Please try to remember that.  The G-d of the Torah/Israel (and well, of all Creation) has nothing whatsoever to do with Jeesus and Jeesus has nothing to do with our G-d.  Both you and your religious companions can most certainly claim and believe anything you want.   But in so far as it relates to Judaism and the Hebrew Scriptures, the Tanakh says what it says and it speaks AGAINST such acts/beliefs as idolatry.  And for a Jew to be engaged in such a belief in and worship of Jeesus (or any other supposed "god" or "godling" for that matter), it would be and is called an idolatrous practice by none other than G-d Himself.   What's more, the concept of idolatry also extends to taking concepts of another religion and trying to attach them to the worship of G-d, which, ironically, is what the evangelical/messy-antic elements of xianity attempt to do.  There can be no merging of xian concepts into/onto Judaism. 

You've made the claim of using the scripture as your guide to determining the Will of G-d yet ignore anything and well, everything therein that would call into question your miracle-chasing rhetoric and your attempts at trying to stuff Jeesus into Judaism. Again, xianity is idolatry for a Jew--G-d told us what we are to accept and what we are to reject. 

For the umpteenth time, miracles prove absolutely NOTHING.  If that sounds like a campaign speech, then perhaps it's time to thoroughly attune to the message.  You're simply not going to change the reality of the situation as it relates to Torah and Judaism, nor will it change the tone of the passages from the Torah itself with respect to this issue.  


It seems you want to play this game of possibilities.  But just because something may be possible, doesn't mean it's probable.   There is absolutely no historical proof that Jeesus existed, therefore it's a waste of time to try to convince us otherwise.  Since there is no historical evidence to support the existence of Jeesus, his alleged miracles are also immaterial. Thousands of other religions follow miracles, too. Doesn't mean they're to be believed, either.   Again, even if (and that's a big IF) Jeesus did exist, so what?  He has absolutely no place within Judaism, Torah, G-d and His Commandments any more than if Harry Potter were discovered to be a real person residing in Lancaster, PA, rather than residing in England.  It has no bearing on anything related to Judaism.  You simply want Jeesus to be real in order to make a claim for him into the Tanakh, but even then he would never have any part with the Jewish People or the G-d of Israel.  No amount of polemical and theological reconfiguring (despite the abomination of the Messy-antics) would ever change that equation.  And as for what the Torah says about Jeesus, it would not be pretty.  We are well aware of the four M's of xian interpretation of the Hebrew Scriptures:  Misapplication, Misinterpretation,  Misuse and Manufacturing.  So this aside about Jeesus being in the Hebrew Scriptures (which most xians can't even read in the original Hebrew without a "concordance") is just a polemic fantasy. 

So you can believe anything you want (after all, it's America), but the Torah says what it says.  So this whole thing is getting old and worn out.   So despite having never answered the questions directly, you've none the less, actually answered them by stating thus through your posts:  Jeesus trumps the Torah and you want Jews to commit apostasy and idolatry by simply ignoring the Torah.  

Furthermore, as for irony--it appears via your own posts that it is you who refuses to be convinced of G-d's true Word and Will on the issue of miracles and jeesus; choosing to chase after miracles and phantom experiences rather than the words of the Eternal G-d.  So at the end of all this exchange.. who really is unconvincing?  

Since we can't convince you what G-d said not to follow, please don't try to convince us to disobey our G-d.   Believe what you want but don't try to convince us of something that we know is not holy and not something G-d was/is against.  After 2000 years, the Jewish People completely and thoroughly know the bill of goods you're trying to sell.. and what you are trying to sell us this jeesus bill of goods. 

There's really nothing more to say other than that. 


Last Edited By: Arikm7 Wed, 11-Sep-13 21:32:32. Edited 2 times.