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Posts: 732
Sun, 26-Aug-07 21:47:23
Posts: 284
Tue, 28-Aug-07 16:36:39
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Tue, 28-Aug-07 18:00:12
Quote:Continue reading on. The answer becomes quite clear.
Quote:1 When the LORD thy God shall bring thee into the land whither thou goest to possess it, and shall cast out many nations before thee, the Hittite, and the Girgashite, and the Amorite, and the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, and the Hivite, and the Jebusite, seven nations greater and mightier than thou; 2 and when the LORD thy God shall deliver them up before thee, and thou shalt smite them; then thou shalt utterly destroy them; thou shalt make no covenant with them, nor show mercy unto them;~ Deuteronomy Chapter 7
Quote:The instruction to knock on the next door neighbor's door on erev Pesach of the exodus and to ask for gifts was an obligation only once in the history of the world.The instructions regarding not leaving over the mohn only applied during those forty years while traveling in the midbor.www.torahweb.org/torah/20..._tzav.html
Wed, 29-Aug-07 04:11:59
Quote:Agreed, idolatry still exists today. Throughout time, idolatry has been practiced by wayward Jew and Gentile alike.
Quote:However, there were only seven societies/cultures - existing only in the past...
Posts: 4205
Thu, 30-Aug-07 00:18:05
Thu, 30-Aug-07 07:45:34
Quote:Since they were not totally eradicated, they still exist today, perhaps with other names. The commandments to eradicate them still is in force.
Quote:If you would check a listing of the 613 commandments, you will see that there are 3 commandments regarding this
Quote:they were not totally eradicated
Quote:other examples you cite are not considered to be mitzvos
Quote:I should also have added the internet to the list of modern idolotrous practices.
Thu, 30-Aug-07 17:13:08
Quote:1. Is it your position that the commandment is to eradicate specific societies/cultures? Or to eradicate specific genetic blood lines?
Quote:2. If the FORMER (ie, to eradicate a specific society/culture), then what is your basis for so confidently saying they still exist today? And is it your position that these societies/cultures will exist even after moshiach?
Quote:3. If no (ie, they will not exist after moshiach), then how would this commandment to eradicate them still apply in practice after moshiach?
Quote:4. If yes (ie, they will exist after moshiach), then is your position that such irrevocably evil societies/cultures will never be completely eradicated - that the messianic era will include the continuation of these irrevocably evil societies/cultures?
Quote:5. Also, (if they will exist after moshiach), then how do you reconcile the continued existence of such evil societies/cultures with "in that day HaShem will be one and His name shall be one" (Zechariah 14 : 9)?
Quote:6. If the LATTER (ie, to eradicate a specific blood line), then how does your position reconcile with the concept that man is to be killed in his own sin only?
Quote:My understanding is that the Hebrew word, mitzvah, is defined as commandment. While not every Torah commandment is included in the 613, they are all rightly called mitzvot. How do you understand this?
Quote:would you please explain how your position reconciles with your participation on the Internet?
Thu, 30-Aug-07 19:13:16
Posts: 1507
Thu, 30-Aug-07 20:14:02
Fri, 31-Aug-07 13:58:34
Quote:In the case of the seven nations
Quote:As for Amalek... every enemy of the Jewish people has been "Amalek" either via lineage or via character.
Quote:My point is that many of the injunctions were not performed in the same way xians THINK they were or SHOULD be done. Again, the Oral Torah and the ENTIRE History should be reviewed.
Fri, 31-Aug-07 15:16:26
Quote:Original question by Metacrock:The atheists will say God is evil and cruel... How do you [answer] the atheists? God... condones slavery and order the mas acre of women and infants and so on. How do you answer it?Answer by Ezekah:I ask the atheist ?If you consider that it is unethical for G-d to destroy part of His own creation, do you consider it ethical for G-d to have created the universe in the first place?? This throws the whole ethical-ness of G-d creation into the context, that they view the whole thing as just a fictional story.
Tue, 10-Mar-09 09:22:59
Arikm7 wrote: As for Amalek, Saul was to take him out.. but he didn't. Although Samuel would kill King Agag, the Amalekite king had sired children adn they continue the line. In fact, Haman was a direct descendant of the Amalekites. And every enemy of the Jewish people has been "Amalek" either via lineage or via character.
==================================== "Erasing the Memory of 'Amaleq" ==================================== A fundamental dimension of Yisrael is its National Memory. It is on this basis that political judgments are achievable. When National Memory is discarded or fails to elicit a response, Yisrael ceases to function as an autonomous political entity, and national disasters follow. The role of Jewish National Memory is evidence in the case of 'Amaleq, Yisrael's arch-enemy. They were the earliest terrorists on record. What made their attack particularly heinous was that (a) it was unprovoked, since Yisrael was passing through the desert, and not through their territory; (b) it was sudden, against unsuspecting travelers; and (c) it was carried out against the "weak and infirm," who could not defend themselves, rather than against the army (Devarim 25:17-18). As we shall see in what follows, these facts - rather than mere ethnicity - are the defining elements of 'Amaleq. The Tora did not specify the atrocities perpetuated by 'Amaleq; rather, they were entrusted to the National Memory of Yisrael. Jews are required to "remember" what 'Amaleq did (Devarim 25:17) and to "erase the remembrance (zekher) of 'Amaleq" (Devarim 25:19, see also Shemoth 17:14). The conflict must be carried on from generation to generation (Shemoth 17:16). Usually, this is understood in ethnic terms. This understanding is unacceptable. Clearly and unambiguously the Tora mentions "the remembrance (zekher) of 'Amaleq"! According to the rabbis, after King Sennaheriv invaded the Near East, the original natives of the region were deported and replaced with others. Therefore, the present inhabitants of these areas could no longer be identified with the national entities mentioned in Scripture. Therefore, it is impossible to identify the ethnicity of any of the ancient inhabitants of the region (Rambam applied this principle to all people of the region). Thus, on technical grounds alone it would be impossible to identify any one person or people with the original inhabitants of the region. If so, how could Jews be expected to keep on fighting the Amalekite enemy "from generation to generation"? The question is particularly poignant in light of the fact that after having lost contact with 'Amaleq for over 500 years, Jews in Persia were able to identify Haman - the proverbial 'Jew-hater' - with 'Amaleq. What was the basis for this identification? The correct meaning of the "remembrance" was given by R. Isaac Abul'afya in "Pene Yitshaq," (Shabbath Zakhor). He called attention to the fact that the Scripture charged Yisrael to erase the "remembrance" (zekher) - never the "seed" (zer'a) - of 'Amaleq! What was intolerable about 'Amaleq was their inhumanity against unsuspecting travelers; particularly, marking the weak and infirm as the preferred target. The remembrance of 'Amaleq has little to do with ethnicity but with a level of inhuman behavior that cannot be tolerated, no matter what. This type of threat faces Yisrael "from generation to generation." Because Yisrael had registered in her National Memory the atrocities committed by 'Amaleq, she is charged with the double responsibility of identifying and erasing the remembrance of 'Amaleq. The Jews in Persia were able to identify Haman with their proverbial enemy because in their National Memory his activities and ideology reminded them of 'Amaleq: it was a matter of behavior, not merely genealogy or nationality. The preceding could help us resolve a halakhic puzzle. An absolute stipulation to classify a Scriptural assignment as a precept (mitswa) is that, at least in theory, it could be fulfilled in perpetuity. To wit, although sacramental sacrifices are not offered today, nonetheless they qualify as precepts (mitswoth) since they could be offered when the Temple is rebuilt. Now, if to erase "the remembrance (zekher) of 'Amaleq" meant some sort of 'ethnic cleansing," then once executed, it could never be fulfilled again. Rambam attempts to cope with the problem, in my view unsuccessfully, in Sefer ha-Mitswoth #187 (Positive Precepts). The same problem applies to the precept to destroy the seven Canaanite nations - once it is properly fulfilled, it could not be fulfilled again. On the other hand, identification of 'Amaleq in terms of behavior and the memories it evokes, rather than ethnicity, permits the fulfillment of this mitswa in perpetuity. A final note: there may be several valid interpretations on how to identify and proceed to erase the "memory of 'Amaleq." 'Ethnic cleansing," however, is not one of them. (Adapted from "Erasing the Memory of 'Amaleq," appended to "The Horizontal Society: Understanding the Covenant and Alphabetic Judaism" by Rabbi Jose Faur, an extraordinary two-volume explanation of the rabbinic tradition in modern terminology)
Posts: 20720
Tue, 10-Mar-09 12:30:08
Tue, 10-Mar-09 15:49:57
Posts: 2
Wed, 25-Mar-09 22:17:06
Posts: 20
Sun, 31-May-09 16:20:34
Mon, 1-Jun-09 01:43:09
The last liberals the world ever saw were the Egyptians who sat Joseph's brothers down and fed them meat even though they despised meat eaters. Genuine liberals tolerate the opinions of others.
Today's faux liberals do not tolerate any other opinion and if one exists it has to be squashed.
Mon, 1-Jun-09 20:26:58
Mon, 1-Jun-09 21:32:52
Absinthe wrote: God is evil and cruel Forgive me for being somewhat confused. I always thought that when people said that, it was because they didn't understand what G-d was trying to say in His actions. Thanks. Susan
Mon, 1-Jun-09 22:48:20
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