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Kerry:

Welcome to the forum.

#1 please don't yell which is what typing in CAPS is.

#2 Please do not speak for "Jew and Chrstian alike." We are not alike. I suggest you read the forum rules and ask questions of us Jews rather than pre-supposing you know what we believe.

#3 take your entire post -- David was not guilty of murder or adultery. He was not "guilty under the law."

Deut 7:3 specifically forbids a marriage between Bathsheba and Uriah. Therefore Bathsheba could not have been legally married to Uriah. The Tanach refers to her as his "isha" which can be translated as wife, or as "woman" or other meanings.

So odds are they Bathsheva and Uriah were never legally married in the eyes of Torah.

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Genesis 27:46 - And Rebecca said to Isaac, "I am disgusted with my life because of the daughters of Heth. If Jacob takes a wife of the daughters of Heth like these, from the daughters of the land, of what use is life to me?"

If the marriage was not legal, and according to Deuteronomy 7:3 it wasn't, then there's no issue here. However, let's say for the sake of argument that Uriah was married to Bathsheba at some point.

The question is: was she married to Uriah at the time she met and bedded King David? Did King David commit adultery with her?

Note that nowhere in the bible does it say that he committed adultery. In Psalm 51 David admits to G-d that he (David) commited a sin ONLY to G-d . . .not a sin against either Bathsheba or Uriah.

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Psalm 51:6. Against You alone have I sinned . . .

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Going back a bit, when David was just a youth, the following account is found in the Tanach:

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1 Samuel 17:18 - [Jesse to David:] "And you shall bring these ten cheeses to the captain of the thousand, and you shall see how your brothers are faring, and you shall take the pledges [v'et 'arubatam tiqah]."

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This is an important text. Here we are told that before David's brothers go into battle where they may die they must give their wives divorces (a get). This is because a man who dies in battle may never have his body found and the wife will never be free to remarry if there is a doubt about his death.

This is still true today. In 9/11 many Jews called their Rabbis from the towers to give their wives divorces so that they (the wives) could remarry since they knew their bodies would never be found.

In my quote above Jesse is sending supplies with David to bring to his [Jesse's] other sons, David's brothers, who are on the battle field, and requests that David secure from them their respective 'arubah, surety/guarantee, which is their "get" (bill of divorcement) to be brought back home and given to each of their wives. In the event that any of them die on the battlefield, this would enable their widow to legally remarry among the Israelites. If Uriah and Batsheba were legally married, then he was obligated to give her a "get" (divorce) before he went to the battlefield. From that moment on, they were no longer married.

The Hebrew noun 'arubah appears in only one other place in the Hebrew Bible, where it confirms this meaning:

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Proverbs 17:18 - A person without sense clasps hands; he becomes surety ['arubah] before his neighbor.

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In other words, a fool makes his neighbor look good.

In Modern Hebrew, the nouns 'eiravon, guarantee/security and 'arvut, guarantee. [The noun 'eiravon is actually also used in the Hebrew Bible, e.g., Genesis 38:17,18,20.].

Now what about murder? Did David murder Uriah?

Are you forgetting perhaps that David was the KING? Just as Presidents order soldiers into battle, so too did David order Uriah into battle.

No murder, no adultery for King David. It is all there in the bible. Uriah disobeyed a directo order from his commander which was treason -- so David had the right to condemn him to death. He erred in doing it surreptitiously rather than putting him on trial -- so his sin was one of appearance.

David did not commit adultery and neither did he commit murder in sending Uriah to his death. David did not commit either sin. His sin was one of appearance -- of appearing to commit adultery.

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For, it says "vayihi David l'chol deracho maskil VaHaShem imo" 'And David dealt intelligently in all his ways and HaShem was with him' (I Samuel 18:14).

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How can one read the above and think that David sinned?

How can one think that David was a murderer or adulterer and yet G-d was with him?

If so, what is meant [by the Prophet Nathan's admonition] maduah bazit et d'var HaShem la'asot hara b'eino

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'Why have you disgraced the word of HASHEM to do that which is evil in his eye' (II Sam. 12:9)

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Read closely we see that it says la'asot hara 'to do evil' [but not that he 'did' evil].

Not DID evil. But "to do" -- this teaches that David did not actually commit a sin.

Read Psalm 15 -- it is obvious that David is not the sinner you seem to think that he is:

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"Who may live on your holy hill? He whose walk is blameless and does what is righteous, he who speaks the truth from his heart and has no slander in his tongue, who does his neighbor no wrong and casts no slur on his fellow man, who despises a vile man, but honor those who fear the L-RD, who keeps his oath even when it hurts, and lends his money without usury and does not accept bribes..."

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Exodus 20:13 - You shall not murder [lo tirtzah; {#6}]. You shall not commit adultery [lo tin'af; {#7}]. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

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#4 your idea about the Mogen David is likewise illogical and based on no knowledge -- so why voice it here? Very odd.

Kerry, you are welcome to post on the forum but please stopp "yelling" (all caps) and do not assume to come here and teach Judaism (it is a rule violation). Ask questions. That is fine.

kerry drennen wrote:

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I am sorry for "yelling" I hav MS and it is much easier for me to type in caps on my particular kind of keyboard. I am not supposing to teach you anything, an opening discussion gives those who read it only a direction of where I come from and if Faith in G_D is not a common factor in anyone's relationship with H_M what is?

Sorry to hear about your illness, and thanks for your consideration in "not yelling."

Everyone has a relationship with HaShem -- some have a very BAD relationship with Him because they put their stock in "faith" based on feelings and ignored Torah.

To you, faith in HaShem means what exactly? Do you really have faith in HaShem or do you believe in a man-made religion (perhaps one of your own making). I'm not being judgmental here, just asking a question.

You see, G-d created man for a purpose. That purpose is that we are co-creators on this planet. That means we have responsibility to follow G-d's little instruction book (Torah). To have a relationship with HaShem we must be good people, we must help ourselves and others. We must try to make this world a better place. We must try to understand what this means. . . Do you do that? These are questions for you to ask yourself -- because it is who you are and what you do that gives you a GOOD relationship with HaShem.