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Posts: 20703
Sun, 15-Jun-08 09:56:24
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(Psalms 146:8) "G-d loves the righteous." G-d said: 'I love those who love Me and so it says (1 Samuel 2:30) "For I honor those who honor Me." They love Me so I love them in return.' Why does G-d love the righteous? Because righteousness is not an inheritance or a family trait. You find that priests are from a priestly family and Levites are from a levitical family as it says (Psalms 135:19-20) "O house of Aaron bless G-d! O house of Levi bless G-d!" If someone wants to become a priest [from the family of Aaron] or a Levite he cannot because his father was not a priest or a Levite. However, if someone wants to become righteous even if he is a gentile he can because it is not a family trait as it says (ibid.) "O those who fear G-d bless G-d!" It does not say the house of those who fear G-d but those who fear G-d. It is not a family trait rather on their own they chose to fear and love G-d. Therefore, G-d loves them.
Posts: 70
Sun, 15-Jun-08 13:49:56
Sun, 15-Jun-08 14:53:55
Fri, 4-Jul-08 16:36:09
The release of a new movie, End of Days, starring action hero Arnold Schwarzenegger, is Hollywood's attempt to jump on the bandwagon, and capitalize on the expectation of what awaits the world after December 31, 1999. The film is set in New York in December 1999. Schwarzenegger, who plays an ex-cop, finds himself unwillingly in the forefront of the cosmic struggle between good and evil as the forces of darkness run wild in New York. (Some would argue that Mayor Guilliani has played a similar role!) The background to this Hollywood extravaganza depicting the final showdown is explicitly based the Chrstian concept as explained in the Book of Revelations, the final segment of the Chrstian Bible: And when the thousand years has ended Satan shall be released from his prison ... [Revelations 20:7] The whole scenario is the backdrop for the final cataclysmic struggle between God and Satan, which will ultimately result in the victory of good over evil and the final redemption of humanity. To find out what happens, you'll have to go see the movie. To find out the Jewish perspective on the millennium, just read on. The Key Differences While there are certain similarities between the Jewish and Chrstian concepts of redemption, there are also major differences. The first and most important point is that while all three monotheistic faiths have a concept of Messianic redemption, the idea originates in Judaism. Judaism first introduced the idea of an all-powerful G-d who acts in history, transforming history into a controlled process that leads to a destination. What's the destination? The Garden of Eden. In other words, at the end of history we will return spiritually and ethically to where we came from. The Jewish idea of redemption is synonymous with all humanity living together in peace and brotherhood, in a close spiritual relationship with the infinite Creator of the universe. The significance of the millennia -- a one thousand year period -- is specifically Chrstian, and has no real relevance to Judaism, yet Judaism does give a time frame, or a deadline, so to speak, for the final redemption. [See Talmud-Rosh Hashanah 29:a] Jewish tradition teaches that the Messiah will have to come by the year 6,000 of the Jewish calendar (we are currently in 5760 so we have a maximum of 240 years left), but it doesn't preclude him coming prior to that date. (Incidentally, the Jewish definition of the Messiah is a leader, descendent of the royal family of King David, who will bring all the Jewish people back to Israel, rebuild the Temple, and ultimately lead all humanity back to the ideal state.) Apocalypse Within the Jewish prophetic tradition there is also the notion of trials, tribulations and even cataclysmic struggles prior to the redemption: And evil will befall you in the end of days. [Deuteronomy 31:29; also see Ezekiel 38 and 39] But there are significant differences between the Jewish and Chrstian versions of the apocalypse. One huge difference is the concept of Satan. This idea also originates in Judaism, except that Satan in the Jewish tradition is an accusing angel, a sort of cosmic prosecuting attorney acting entirely under G-d's control, who gets on the Jewish people's case when we stray from our historic mission. The dualistic notion of a powerful anti-G=d figure who fights with G-d for the destiny of the human race is a Chrstian idea (possibly originating in Zoroa-sterianism, the dominant religion in the Middle East at the time of the founding of Chrstianity.) It is entirely unacceptable to Judaism. Judaism teaches that there are no competing powers. God is completely in control. Doomsday Prophecies Another significant difference also stems from the Jewish understanding of prophecy. From the Chrstian perspective the doomsday scenario is more or less inevitable. The Jewish perspective is very different. Judaism teaches that all "good" prophecy will eventually come true. When? That depends on our actions -- we can either hasten or delay the Big Day depending on how we behave. "Bad" prophecy, on the other hand, is a warning. It's G-d's way of telling us to get our act together or else... So, in a nutshell relax, don't panic, the world won't end on New Year's Eve (although on the morning of January 1st, after too much champagne, some of us may wish that it had!) From the Jewish perspective we're not off the hook. That great day will come, and we Jews pray three times a day for it to come soon. When will it happen? How will it happen? That all depends on us.
The release of a new movie, End of Days, starring action hero Arnold Schwarzenegger, is Hollywood's attempt to jump on the bandwagon, and capitalize on the expectation of what awaits the world after December 31, 1999.
The film is set in New York in December 1999. Schwarzenegger, who plays an ex-cop, finds himself unwillingly in the forefront of the cosmic struggle between good and evil as the forces of darkness run wild in New York. (Some would argue that Mayor Guilliani has played a similar role!)
The background to this Hollywood extravaganza depicting the final showdown is explicitly based the Chrstian concept as explained in the Book of Revelations, the final segment of the Chrstian Bible:
And when the thousand years has ended Satan shall be released from his prison ... [Revelations 20:7]
The whole scenario is the backdrop for the final cataclysmic struggle between God and Satan, which will ultimately result in the victory of good over evil and the final redemption of humanity.
To find out what happens, you'll have to go see the movie. To find out the Jewish perspective on the millennium, just read on.
While there are certain similarities between the Jewish and Chrstian concepts of redemption, there are also major differences.
The first and most important point is that while all three monotheistic faiths have a concept of Messianic redemption, the idea originates in Judaism.
Judaism first introduced the idea of an all-powerful G-d who acts in history, transforming history into a controlled process that leads to a destination.
What's the destination? The Garden of Eden. In other words, at the end of history we will return spiritually and ethically to where we came from.
The Jewish idea of redemption is synonymous with all humanity living together in peace and brotherhood, in a close spiritual relationship with the infinite Creator of the universe.
The significance of the millennia -- a one thousand year period -- is specifically Chrstian, and has no real relevance to Judaism, yet Judaism does give a time frame, or a deadline, so to speak, for the final redemption. [See Talmud-Rosh Hashanah 29:a]
Jewish tradition teaches that the Messiah will have to come by the year 6,000 of the Jewish calendar (we are currently in 5760 so we have a maximum of 240 years left), but it doesn't preclude him coming prior to that date.
(Incidentally, the Jewish definition of the Messiah is a leader, descendent of the royal family of King David, who will bring all the Jewish people back to Israel, rebuild the Temple, and ultimately lead all humanity back to the ideal state.)
Within the Jewish prophetic tradition there is also the notion of trials, tribulations and even cataclysmic struggles prior to the redemption:
And evil will befall you in the end of days. [Deuteronomy 31:29; also see Ezekiel 38 and 39]
But there are significant differences between the Jewish and Chrstian versions of the apocalypse.
One huge difference is the concept of Satan. This idea also originates in Judaism, except that Satan in the Jewish tradition is an accusing angel, a sort of cosmic prosecuting attorney acting entirely under G-d's control, who gets on the Jewish people's case when we stray from our historic mission.
The dualistic notion of a powerful anti-G=d figure who fights with G-d for the destiny of the human race is a Chrstian idea (possibly originating in Zoroa-sterianism, the dominant religion in the Middle East at the time of the founding of Chrstianity.) It is entirely unacceptable to Judaism.
Judaism teaches that there are no competing powers. God is completely in control.
Another significant difference also stems from the Jewish understanding of prophecy.
From the Chrstian perspective the doomsday scenario is more or less inevitable. The Jewish perspective is very different.
Judaism teaches that all "good" prophecy will eventually come true. When? That depends on our actions -- we can either hasten or delay the Big Day depending on how we behave. "Bad" prophecy, on the other hand, is a warning. It's G-d's way of telling us to get our act together or else...
So, in a nutshell relax, don't panic, the world won't end on New Year's Eve (although on the morning of January 1st, after too much champagne, some of us may wish that it had!)
From the Jewish perspective we're not off the hook. That great day will come, and we Jews pray three times a day for it to come soon. When will it happen? How will it happen? That all depends on us.
Heather Dean also contributed to this article.
Posts: 4
Mon, 7-Jul-08 12:43:36
You can justify any opinion , regarding Gentiles , using the Hebrew bible , Talmud , Musar literature .etc Sophiee quoted from a talmudic text that states that "even if he is a gentile he can be righteous " ... imagine a Christian text saying something similar " even Jews can be pious and righteouss , even them " ...Well yes of course , any human being can choose to be a good person , irrespective of nationality , religious affiliation .etc There are many religious Jews that want absolutely nothing to do with Gentiles , besides maybe employing a few of them to run deliveries for their store , work for them on Saturday ( Sabbath Goy ) .etc .Others are more open towards Gentiles , they just wouldn't marry their daughter to one , then there are those who wouldn't even care if their daughter married a Gentile . It's absolutely natural for the Jewish people , considering their history and what they have had to put up with through out the centuries , particularly in Christian Europe , to develop a degree of contempt and detachment towards Gentiles / Christians . It's Human nature , can't blame Judaism or any particular Jewish "gene" for that . Jews were literate , when everybody else in Christian Europe and to lesser extent in the Muslim world , were illiterate . Living as a Jew expecially in exile , demands literacy , requires an education , if not for religious purposes ( studying Torah ) , simply as a matter of survival . It was thought , that a Gentile would be less inclined to persecute a Jew if that Jew was his physician or possessed some other valuable skill not generally found in society . It's natural for a people like the Jews to avoid intermarriage with those outside of their group , in order to perserve their culture and religious integrity . It's likewise natural , for the Jewish people to feel a sense of superiority , essentially seeing themselves as being better than Gentiles , due to the fact that they are . In business , sciences , education , entertainment / media ....etc even religion ...for example , about two billion Gentiles worship a Jew and another 1.5 Billion Gentiles adhere to a religion similar to Judaism , which borrowed most of it's theology and practices from Judaism ( Islam ) . What should the Jewish view of Gentiles be at the end of days ? I don't know , what should it be ? What is the Gentile view of Jews in the "end of days " ? Or how about now , how do Non-Jews view Jews today ? It was only about 60 years ago that 6 million Jews were massacred in Europe . I'm a Gentile , and I currently live in Egypt . I lived in Israel for a few months , and the impression I get of Israelis for example , is that they are a good people , just a bit hardened by all of the BS they have to deal with . Hospitality in Israel , not very good ..However in Tel Aviv , I once went to an ATM on Ben Yehudah Street and for some reason or another , I was unable to withdraw from it , then something completely amazing and miraculous occured ...The young man standing behind me waiting to use the ATM , looked at me and asked " Do you need any money ? Are you OK ? " .....I just stood there staring at him , as if he was an ET from outer-space , I then managed to say " Oh I greatly appreciate the gesture , really , but there is another ATM that always works for me , this one sometimes gives me trouble , I'll just go there now "..he insisted .."Are you sure , I can give you 100 shekels ( $24.00 aprox ) " , " Really appreciate the gesture , but no thank you , I will just go to the other ATM , I wont have any problems , Shalom "... This Jewish man , Israeli , had absolutely no idea who I was . I was a stranger , he suspected I was a tourist , and indeed I was , and he just wanted to help . That has never happened to me before .
Mon, 7-Jul-08 17:00:58
There are many religious Jews that want. . .
It's absolutely natural for the Jewish people , considering their history and what they have had to put up with through out the centuries , particularly in Christian Europe , to develop a degree of contempt and detachment towards Gentiles / Christians . It's Human nature , can't blame Judaism or any particular Jewish "gene" for that .
[Ben Azzai] would say: Do not regard anyone with contempt, and do not reject anything, for there is no man who does not have his hour and nothing that does not have its place. Talmud Avot 4:3
It's likewise natural , for the Jewish people to feel a sense of superiority , essentially seeing themselves as being better than Gentiles
Moses led the people out of the camp toward the Divine Presence. They stood transfixed at the foot of the mountain.
(Psalms 146:8) "G-d loves the righteous." G-d said: 'I love those who love Me and so it says (1 Samuel 2:30) "For I honor those who honor Me." They love Me so I love them in return.' Why does G-d love the righteous? Because righteousness is not an inheritance or a family trait. You find that priests are from a priestly family and Levites are from a levitical family as it says (Psalms 135:19-20) "O house of Aaron bless G-d! O house of Levi bless G-d!" If someone wants to become a priest [from the family of Aaron] or a Levite he cannot because his father was not a priest or a Levite. However, if someone wants to become righteous even if he is a gentile he can because it is not a family trait as it says (ibid.) "O those who fear G-d bless G-d!" It does not say the house of those who fear G-d but those who fear G-d. It is not a family trait rather on their own they chose to fear and love G-d. Therefore, G-d loves them. Midrash Bamidbar Rabbah 8:2
Mon, 7-Jul-08 19:01:05
I would respond to your last post , but I see there isn't much room for discourse . A more neutral space would be required ... Moving to another thread ....
Mon, 7-Jul-08 19:25:24
Posts: 3232
Tue, 8-Jul-08 04:20:43
The dualistic notion of a powerful anti-G=d figure who fights with G-d for the destiny of the human race is a Chrstian idea (possibly originating in Zoroa-sterianism, the dominant religion in the Middle East at the time of the founding of Chrstianity.) It is entirely unacceptable to Judaism. Judaism teaches that there are no competing powers. God is completely in control.
Posts: 150
Tue, 8-Jul-08 04:45:32
Posts: 106
Tue, 8-Jul-08 09:01:48
Tue, 8-Jul-08 10:26:01
"One of the final steps of the Redemption is the end of the Evil Inclination. Hardly a novel idea of Christianity."
Posts: 2024
Tue, 8-Jul-08 11:14:32
Tue, 8-Jul-08 11:35:16
Douggg wrote: The dualistic notion of a powerful anti-G=d figure who fights with G-d for the destiny of the human race is a Chrstian idea (possibly originating in Zoroa-sterianism, the dominant religion in the Middle East at the time of the founding of Chrstianity.) It is entirely unacceptable to Judaism. Judaism teaches that there are no competing powers. God is completely in control. There is no dualistic notion of an powerful anti-G-d figure on equal footing with G-d. We do believe that Satan wants to become like G-d and be worshiped. (snip) In Chrstianity, G-d is in complete control as well. You can ask any Chrstian that.
"According to Zoro-aster, Ahu-ra Maz-da created the universe and the cosmic order that he maintains. He created the twin spirits Spen-ta Main-yu and Ang-ra Main-yu (Ahr-iman)--the former beneficent, choosing truth, light, and life, the latter destructive, choosing deceit, darkness, and death. The struggle of the spirits against each other makes up the history of the world. . . .According to Zoroa-ster the world was soon to be consumed in a mighty conflagration from which only the followers of the good would rise to share in a new creation. Until this came to pass, the souls of those who died would cross the Bridge of the Requiter from whence the good would be led to wait in heaven, the wicked in hell.
"According to Xianity, The Father created the universe and the cosmic order that he maintains. He created the twin spirits Jsus and the devil--the former beneficent, choosing truth, light, and life, the latter destructive, choosing deceit, darkness, and death. The struggle of the spirits against each other makes up the history of the world. . . According to Xianity the world was soon to be consumed in a mighty conflagration from which only the followers of Jsus would rise to share in a new creation. Until this came to pass, the souls of those who died would cross the Bridge of the Requiter from whence the good would be led to wait in heaven, the wicked in hell.
Tue, 8-Jul-08 12:58:10
Douggg wrote: "One of the final steps of the Redemption is the end of the Evil Inclination. Hardly a novel idea of Christianity." Hi Gedaliah, I don't know if "novel" is the right word. But there is distinctly a difference. Christians believe that the evil inclination of man to sin will not be done away with until our bodies are redeemed (not restored) to a different incorruptible body - in the resurrection and associated, in the twinkling of an eye, changing of those Christians alive when it takes place. Our current bodies, which are made from the earth, the extension of Adam's flesh - Christians believe will be changed to a body made of heavenly supernatural substance, not a restoration to the garden of eden body that Adam originally had. The impression I get is that the Christian concept of redemption above is not the same as Judaism's concept - which is a restoration to the garden of eden originality - which would mean bodies made from the dust of the earth (I am asking) ?
Life will not make a quick move to a fantasy world where the laws of nature cease. It appears to be the teaching of the Zohar that the end of the Evil Inclination takes place when the last resurrection takes place, 210 years after the righteous are resurrected. This is all far after the repair of the sin of the first man. That is to say that there will be no remnant of the influence of that sin for more than a hundred years prior to the final resurrection. We are not going back to life before that sin, but the effects of that sin are to be repaired.
Tue, 8-Jul-08 16:40:04
A body is a physical thing made out of a physical substance or material. In terms of man it is inherently made out of the matter your theology omits. A "heavenly substance" is not a body at all. Without a body man is not man. It takes both components. What you are describing is missing a main component of resurrection. It doesn't matter the apologetics that are used to try to circumvent this, it is inherently flawed.
Wed, 9-Jul-08 08:25:32
Malachim ("messengers", mistranslated in Christian bibles as "angels") can be either human or spiritual (what would be referred to as "angels"). I would say that angels did not appear to men in actual, physical bodies. As is the case with prophecy, man perceives things in terms of his world, and his understanding. I could be wrong here (one of our Rabbis or Uri can hopefully correct me if I'm wrong), but it is my understanding that instances in the Tanach of people seeing angels are based on the perception of the human, and not actual, physical reality. Nonetheless, if angels did manifest in bodies temporarily, there is no correlation between that and the type of "resurrected body" you are describing. The sole purpose for such an occasion is utterly non-existant in the physically void and entirely spiritual world you are describing. The notion of any body - which is a physical thing - in such a world is perposterous.
Wed, 9-Jul-08 13:43:48
"Nonetheless, if angels did manifest in bodies temporarily, there is no correlation between that and the type of "resurrected body" you are describing."
Wed, 9-Jul-08 14:18:09
Wed, 9-Jul-08 15:10:44
"We were created both body and soul for a reason, and it is not coincidance that when we are resurrected we are resurrected a soul into a body."
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