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tyolilums |
Yeshayahu/Isaiah 53:8 |
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I hate to ask, but I don't have access to my artscroll tanach for awhile. Would someone post the translation of Isaiah 53:8 from the artscroll stone
edition? Thanks
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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tyolilums wrote: My own translation of that entire chapter (starting at 52:13), with commentary, is available online at http://mordochai.tripod.com/y-shayahu53.html - scroll to the bottom of the page and click the link. http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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UriYosef |
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tyolilums wrote: Although I do not necessarily agree with the accuracy of this translation, here it is, along with the footnoted commentary that appears therein: Isaiah 53:9(AST) - He submitted himself to his grave like wicked men; and the wealthy [submitted] to his executions, for committing no crimes and with no deceit in his mouth.*The commentary is noteworthy, and the fact that it is true is evident from this source. UriYosef
Our raison d'être:
WHOSOEVER DESTROYS A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE IMPUTES [GUILT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD DESTROYED A COMPLETE WORLD; AND WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD. (Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, 37a) The fruits of our effort: The battle against spiritual terrorism is being won, one soul at a time!!! |
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Sophiee1 |
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I'll do you one better, Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12 with the footnotes.
Footnotes:
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
Last Edited By: Sophiee1
07/24/08 10:18:19.
Edited 1 times.
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UriYosef |
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ProfBenTziyyon wrote: Very nice work, Mordochai - kol ha'kavod!
Our raison d'être:
WHOSOEVER DESTROYS A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE IMPUTES [GUILT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD DESTROYED A COMPLETE WORLD; AND WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD. (Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, 37a) The fruits of our effort: The battle against spiritual terrorism is being won, one soul at a time!!! |
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tyolilums |
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A little too much information for me right now. I'm only curious about the verse with the Hebrew word lamo in it. I was already glancing through Prof
Uri's paper. I'm curious how the artscroll translates that verse and I can't look it up right now. I believe you translated verse 9 here.
Prof BenTzyyion changes all the he's to theys? Which is only confusing me more. You can't do that, can you? |
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Sophiee1 |
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Ty, in post #3 I quoted to you from the Artscroll Stone Edition translation starting with Isaiah 52:13 - 53:12.
Did you miss that perhaps??? So your question was answered 2 posts before your last. As for "lamo" it is just a poetic synonym of "lahem." The suffix "mo" replaces the "hem". UriYosef goes into detail in his article on Isaiah 53, starting on page 26. As he explains the suffix "mo" is used throughout the T'nach as a poetic synonym for the more common suffix "hem" -- which is a standalone word for the pronoun "them" in Hebrew. As for the Professor -- he didn't change all the "he's" to "theys" -- the Xian translations change it from "theys" to "he"! Read Isaiah 53:8 from the KJV: Quote:Notice all the singulars? They use this as a proof text to say this is Jsus. "HE was stricken." The only problem is it isn't "he" it is PLURAL. So if properly translated it obviously doesn't mean one person -- aka Jsus. From Artscroll, Isaiah 53:8: "Now that he has been released from captivity and judgment who could have imagined such a generation? For he had been removed from the land of the living, an affliction upon them that was my people's sin." UPON THEM plural. Properly translating lamo destroys the Xian proof text. Ergo all the arguing.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
Last Edited By: Sophiee1
07/24/08 13:00:42.
Edited 1 times.
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Netanel |
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Other instances of lamo in Isaiah:
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UriYosef |
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tyolilums wrote:OOPPSS... Sorry about that. Maybe it's time for me to schedule my next visit to the opthalmologist... UriYosef
Our raison d'être:
WHOSOEVER DESTROYS A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE IMPUTES [GUILT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD DESTROYED A COMPLETE WORLD; AND WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD. (Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, 37a) The fruits of our effort: The battle against spiritual terrorism is being won, one soul at a time!!! |
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Sophiee1 |
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Perhaps you were reading from right to left?
:)
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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tyolilums wrote: Addressing your points in reverse order, tyolilums,
.....the evidence of [author's] many previous usages of the metaphor is there for all to see, and there is no indication that the intended meaning in the "Suffering Servant" chapter is any different. Can anyone deny that Yisrael has suffered through the ages? The consequence is that whenever the writer refers to the "servant" using the pronouns he, him or his, we must take into account when translating his poetic metaphors that he is talking about an entire nation rather than an individual person, so that it is actually more appropriate to use the plural forms they, them and their in a translation. 1) You have already been told that lamo is simply a poetic synonym for lahem, "to them". To which I would add this: the substitution of the alternative poetic suffix -mo in place of the normal -hem is not limited to just the simple pronoun, but is frequently also found in nouns and verbs - as, for example, the following words: בָּמוֹתֵימוֹ bamoteimo in place of בָּמוֹתֵיהֶם bamoteihem ("their high places") in D'varim 33:29; http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Sophiee1 wrote (to Uri): Is there any other way to read? http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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Sophiee1 |
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ProfBenTziyyon wrote: Not course of. All at read to way civilized only the is left to right reading.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Sophiee1 wrote: Most amusing. Or, as a certain wit of my acquaintance (now sadly deceased) used to say, "scheußlich komisch"
(German: "terribly funny", which is a joke in its own right because it's a literal, word-by-word translation of an idiom - "scheußlich"
can't be used that way).
http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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Sophiee1 |
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Yes, I've heard the "chisel" explanation before -- and know how a sofer writes a Torah scroll. My son's school actually had a sofer come and
show them how he works. The rat never told me or I'd have visited that day!
Math is done from right to left as well. The Greeks (so I have read -- Josephus I think) thought that Hebrew was terribly uncivilized and gutteral ergo they were left to righters.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Sophiee1 wrote: So how do you account for the early right-to-left stone incriptions in Greek? Incidentally, "ergo" (therefore) is Latin. http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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Sophiee1 |
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Dyslexia?
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Sophiee1 wrote: Scheußlich komisch (see post #13 supra). http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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Sophiee1 |
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סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Sophiee1 wrote: Sarcasm has been called the lowest form of wit, Sophie. http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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Sophiee1 |
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I was agreeing with you but my graphic got removed somehow. I always heard that puns were the lowest form of humor. I love puns.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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