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Casting out demons in Jesus name

Author	Comment
Ben Masada		#121	[-]
Posts: 118 (02/05/09 14:11:11) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Sophiee1 wrote: We must be factual in our responses. To deny that there are satans in the Tanach is to deny the facts. The Tanach speaks of both human and non-human adversaries to man (some being in our minds and some being angels sent on tasks). I don't care what your personal theology is, we are talking about Judaism not "the world according to Ben Masada." Gehenna (or as Mordochai put it, "Ge Hinnom," aka the "Valley of Hinnom is both a physical place where fires used to be -- and where people would put their children through the fire. . . but it came to mean in midrashim a place of punishment where people who did not learn life's lessons are sent for no more than 11 months to realize the mistakes they made in this life. It isn't hell -- but it does have a place in Jewish teachings. Very good Sophiee, let's not walk in the world according to Ben Masada." How about Moses Maimonides? I mean no offense, but I would like to recommend you "The Guide for the Perplexed." If you haven't read that book yet, the time has arrived. Don't forget that "From Moses to Moses, never rose one like Moses."He says very clearly and more than several times that angels are but emanations. "You know, influences. And here I leave you to go harvest in fields where I can bring basketfull of produce. If there is something I deny myself a part with, is to argue with Jews who are already on my side of the devide. I don't know why, but I consider a waste of time. I'll be back from time to time, to check on the non-Jewish ones who are trying to infitrate in this forum. Ben
Sophiee1		#122	[-]
Posts: 11803 (02/05/09 16:06:46) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ben, I am quite familiar with the Guide for the Perplexed, and it has nothing whatsoever to do with either my comment or your response. Rambam equates angels with disembodied intellect -- and none of that has to do with adversaries (satans) which exist in the form of humans and spirit. You are still twisting your own thoughts with Jewish teaching and misleading others, your last post being a perfect example. It is hypocritical and hilarious that you to reference the Rambam (however erroneously) in this thread, when you wrote to Netanel on the "Messiah" thread: Ben Masada wrote: Netanel wrote: Ben Masada: Jews do not believe in a return after life. Where did you ever get this idea? It just so happens that resurrection of the dead is one of the foundations of Jewish faith (the Thirteenth, in fact). It is not correct to say we don't believe in a return after this life. (snip) From the Scriptures Netanel, from the Scriptures. And if you have any intention to persuade me of Jewish bodily resurrection, you are going to have to use the Scriptures and not extra-Biblical sources. So Netanel can only use the T'nach, but you can use Rambam whenever you so desire (misuse that is), but totally discard what the sage has to say about ressurrection? Amazing -- quite a double standard you have there! סופי And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12 Last Edited By: Sophiee1 02/05/09 20:27:02. Edited 2 times.
Dannyil		#123	[-]
Posts: 55 (02/10/09 23:00:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts Report Post	Ben Masada wrote: "The Guide for the Perplexed." If you haven't read that book yet, the time has arrived. Don't forget that "From Moses to Moses, never rose one like Moses."He says very clearly and more than several times that angels are but emanations. 1. While The Rambam is probably one of the Greatest Rishonim that ever lived, we simply do not Paskim like him on Hashkafa. In general we follow the Ramban, who has the weight of the Mesorah behind him, in this area. 2. While the Guide to the Perplexed is a great treatise, for its time. There are a number of key points. a.) it is not necessarily relevant for our times, b.) it is the single opinion of the Rambam, and he has been sharply criticized for it, from other Rishonim. 3. I learn the Rambam a lot, and am continually awed and humbled by His breadth and scope of knowledge, depth and insight and profound wisdom, which is simply a vessel from Hashem. However, We do not, Hold like him, in either Halacha, or Hashkafa on every point. To say then that the Rambam says xyz is only relevant if we Paskin like him. He says very clearly and more than several times that angels are but emanations. 1. This is your interpretation on what he says. 2. The English word has no meaning here....present the Rambam's Arabic choice, and the three or so different versions of the Hebrew....btw, Ibn Tibbon's translation is pretty standard ipso facto, there is much work to be done in presenting the Arabic. 3. I will counter that there are a dozen or so Rishonim that argue on this anyway. 4. Your point is moot, we don't hold like him in this area. 5. This is an Antimissionary forum and not a Rambam analysis forum. 6. You're wrong. It is not clear what the Rambam means, whether or not he was חוזר or not etc... Danny. Deut 4:15, Deut 4:35-39, Num 23:19, Deut 24:16, Eze 37, Psa 119 - now go and read it...! Torah True Judaism

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