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dawn6773 |
Salvation |
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I did a forum search and didn't find an answer here. If it has already been answered, would you kindly direct me to the appropriate post? Thanks. I was
wondering how do Jews define salvation? And can I have an example?
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Sophiee1 |
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I did a quick search on "salvation" and "saved" on MT and found:
No Salvation without Jsus? Salvation is only by returning a security? Netanel addressed it in this post. and here he wrote: If you have a specific question then feel free to ask away.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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dawn6773 |
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At the end of post 2 you said I am proselytizing and under the threat of a ban. ??? I just want to clear out the gunk from the past and make sure I have a
correct perspective on terms that I learned incorrectly. That is all. You know that Xians have their own definition of salvation. I just wanted to make sure I
had an accurate on from a Jewish perspective. Truly that is all.
When I read in the prayers, "For your salvation I do long." or read in Tehillim 51:14 "Restore to me the joy of your salvation,". I don't want the silly interrpretations I was given in the church to blind me. I see in post 3 that it refers to a national salvation. I see that with the prayer I refered to. But how does it fit with the Tehillim? Is it that maybe because of his sins, calamities are befalling him and that he longs for them to end which would be a sign of HaShem forgiving him? Do I understand this correctly? |
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Sophiee1 |
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Dawn, please accept my abject apologies. I pasted an earlier post that I'd written which primarily contained an article from Jews for Judaism. I
didn't proof read it completely and didn't realize that it also included the comment regarding proselytizing -- which had been directed at the person
for whom the post was originally written, not to you.
You've have behaved very well here and I am so sorry for my own negligence in not ensuring the response was "cleaned up" before I put it in here. The Jews for Judaism article did answer your question (I hope), and again please forgive me for giving the wrong impression about you and your actions on the forum. I've deleted that post and "cleaned it up" for informational purposes. I'm going to paste it in this post. I'll respond specifically to the question "When I read in the prayers, "For your salvation I do long." or read in Tehillim 51:14 "Restore to me the joy of your salvation,". I don't want the silly interrpretations I was given in the church to blind me. " in my next post to you. Here is the post (corrected): G-d created us in His image. He did so for the purpose of growing spiritually. This entire world is one big classroom for us to learn to do good, and thus become holier. We are not damned to a mythical hell. We are not inherently evil. G-d gave us the ability to become closer to Him by emulating Him. Those who don't spend eternity not in a mythical hell, but regretting that they didn't take advantage of their opportunity while they had it. You can't grow when you are dead. Try reading "SPIRITUAL SALVATION AND A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH G-D CAN ONLY COME THROUGH J-SUS" (from Jews for Judaism) The Jewish Response: I hope that Jews for Judaism article is useful. Isaiah 42:6 teaches that it is the role of Judaism and the Jewish nation to show the world this path by serving as a "light to the nations."
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
Last Edited By: Sophiee1
09/13/09 09:19:05.
Edited 1 times.
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Sophiee1 |
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dawn6773 wrote:Tehillim (Psalms) are songs, poetry. Most were written by King David and were sung in the Temple. Psalm 51 is an expression of David's personal repentance, particularly for his sin with Bathsheva. You gave the translation of 51:14: "Restore to me the joy of your salvation,"Another, just as valid, translation is: With your generous spirit (וְר֖וּחַ נְדִיבָ֣ה -- ruah nedivah -- generous or willing spirit) sustain me.David was a prophet, and G-d's spirit was within him. The previous line has David asking G-d not to remove his "holy spirit" from David. The Hebrew is וְר֥וּחַ קָ֝דְשְׁךָ֗. Do you remember when G-d withdrew His spirit from Saul? The וְר֥וּחַ קָ֝דְשְׁךָ֗ (the holy spirit) is inspiration that comes to us from G-d. It is actually a lesser level of communing with G-d than prophecy, but it is still a very holy and high level of connection with HaShem. David in his repentance is asking G-d to remain with Him. I'm not sure I understand your comment: maybe because of his sins, calamities are befalling him and that he longs for them to end which would be a sign of HaShem forgiving him?It is clear that G-d forgives David the moment he repents. Quote:I hope that clears things up for you, and again my apologies for the earlier faux pax.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
Last Edited By: Sophiee1
09/13/09 09:54:07.
Edited 1 times.
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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The word יְשׁוּעָה y'shuah ("salvation") is used in
Sh'mot 14:13 and this verse provides a clear demonstration of that Hebrew word's meaning.
"he took 600 chosen battle-chariots, and all Egypt's other chariots.... so the Egyptians chased after them and overtook them camped by the sea...." (Sh'mot 14:7-9).At the sight of the huge Egyptian army, the people cried out to God in terror (verse 10), and then they rounded on Mosheh: "Weren't there enough graves in Egypt − did you have to bring us here to die in the desert? Look what you've done to us! Didn't we say to you, 'Leave us alone and let us work for the Egyptians'; we would have been better off working for the Egyptians than dying in the desert!" (verses 11-12)Unperturbed, Mosheh answered: "Don't be scared; all you have to do is stand still and watch Adonai's salvation that He's going to do for you today...." (verse 13)The "salvation" that God did for Yisraél that day had nothing to do with "sins" or "Mister Say-tun". He rescued them from the very human Egyptian soldiers who were chasing after them; and the verb "save" is used again at the end of the chapter where the events described therein are summarised in one short sentence: That day, Adonai saved Yisraél from Egypt's power and Yisraél saw the Egyptians lying dead on the seashore. (verse 30) http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל
Last Edited By: ProfBenTziyyon
09/13/09 11:28:05.
Edited 4 times.
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seychel |
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"Psalm 51 is an expression of David's personal repentance, particularly for his sin with Bathsheva. You gave the translation of
51:14:
"Restore to me the joy of your salvation,"Another, just as valid, translation is: With your generous spirit (וְר֖וּחַ נְדִיבָ֣ה -- ruah nedivah -- generous or willing spirit) sustain me." "With your generous spirit sustain me" is a valid translation for the second half of the verse, not for "Restore to me the joy of my salvation." |
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Sophiee1 |
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Oops. Forgot to quote the whole line.
הָשִׁ֣יבָה לִּ֭י שְׂשׂ֣וֹן יִשְׁעֶ֑ךָ וְר֖וּחַ נְדִיבָ֣ה
תִסְמְכֵֽנִי
Translation "Restore the joy to me of your help (rescue / salvation), with your generous spirit sustain
me".
הָשִׁ֣יבָה (Restore) לִּ֭י (to me) שְׂשֹׂ֣ון (the joy) יִשְׁעֶ֑ךָ (your rescue / help / salvation) -- see Mordochai's post on the subject וְר֖וּחַ (your spirit / wind) נְדִיבָ֣ה (generous) תִסְמְכֵֽנִי (sustain me)
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
Last Edited By: Sophiee1
09/14/09 13:28:33.
Edited 1 times.
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Sophie,
2) שְׂשֹׂון means "[the] joy of", not "the joy". 3) יִשְׁעֶֽךָ is the noun יֵֽשַׁע − not יְשׁוּעָה − with the 2nd person possessive pronominal suffix (that would have to be יְשׁוּעָתֶֽךָ as in T'hillim 67:3, 70:5). 4) רֽוּחַ נְדִיבָה means "a spirit of generosity", not "Your generous spirit"; the word נְדִיבָה is a noun ("generosity") rather than an adjective, and there is no "Your". 5) The word-by-word translation is therefore: הָשִֽׁיבָה − Restore http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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Sophiee1 |
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Mordochai, I edited my post to use your fonts since you said mine was not legible (it was to me which must just be a quirk of EZBoard aka Yuku).
You are certainly much more versed in Hebrew than I since you are not only a native born Israeli, but a professor. I won't change my translation as it would just confuse the readers since your post is commenting on mine.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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