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Isaac |
science and genesis |
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i was wondering how accurate is genesis with science and the theory of evolution.
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Sophiee1 |
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Nahmanides (Ramban) who lived from 1194 - c. 1270 discussed Genesis using terms that we think of today as being evolution.
Ramban first discuses Genesis 1:1. What G-d brought forth thereis something called hailei, what medieval scientists thought of as the raw matter whence all life emerges. Quote:Genesis 1:1 reports G-ds root decision to create something out of nothing; after that, life developed however the scientists describe it. Genesis 1:2, the very next line, describes primeval earth as tohu vavohu. Tohu, says Ramban, means astonishment, and vavohu means because there was something there astonishment, that is, because out of nothing came something but not yet anything in particular. G-d could have created everything in all its detail with a snap of the divine fingers, but G-d didnt, and therein lies the significance of Genesis 1:1. G-d created the possibility of being, an act that astonishes (Genesis 1:2) because aboriginal emptiness had become primal matter, ready to be shaped and reshaped ad infinitum. So here you have a VERY Orthodox Jew who is one of the most respected of our sages speaking in terms of evolution who lived in the 12th century of the common era. I suggest you read The Age of the Universe written by UriYosef's friend, Gerald Schroeder. Gerald Shroeder's book is definitely worth reading. "Genesis and the Big Bang." Aish also had an article on this subject entitled "Did Adam Have Parents?" It isn't on their website any more but I found it via "The Wayback Machine" which caches the internet. Here is the link Quote:(snip) Follow the link to read the rest of the article.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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Isaac |
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thanks for the answers
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Isaac wrote:
The Hebrew word צֶֽלֶם tzelem denotes a shape, pattern, or design and the unresolved possessive pronoun suffix ־וֹ -o "his" has to refer to the last subject that precedes it in the sentence, i.e. "the adam"; this reading is reinforced by the presence of פְּסִיק p'sik (a vertical dividing bar) after אֱלֹהִים elohim ("God"), and by the phrasing implied by the ta'amim (פַּשְׁתָּא֙ pashta, זָקֵף־קָטֹ֔ן zakéf-katon) with which אֶת־הָֽאָדָם֙ et-ha'adam and בְּצַלְמ֔וֹ b'tzalmo are marked. In any case, בְּצַלְמוֹ b'tzalmo cannot possibly refer to God's "shape" חו"ש, because He doesn't have one! The meaning of this verse is therefore that God created the adam in a "shape" or a "pattern" that God had "designed" specifically for him − ruling out any possibility that Mankind "evolved" from any other form or forms of life − and the continuation of the same verse underscores this:
http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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Isaac |
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but would that not go against the theory of evolution
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Sophiee1 |
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Correct. There is nothing in the Torah that is in conflict with the theory of evolution.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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ProfBenTziyyon |
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Isaac wrote: and Sophiee1 responded:
http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל |
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Sophiee1 |
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Aka contradiction in terms.
There is no contradiction between creation in the Torah and evolution. So Torah does not go against the theory of evolution (in general. Theories change and some scientists believe evolution was entirely random without any intelligence and this does conflict with Torah which tells us there is a creator -- but a majority of scientists do believe that there is intelligence behind evolution). בחיי בן אשר of the 13th century stated that the universe was billions of years old. This was LONG before Darwin. It is primarily fundamentalist evangelical Chrstians reading translations of the Jewish bible who don't believe in evolution. There are some Jews who believe that evolution is incompatible with the Torah, but a majority of sages would disagree (Rambam, Ramban, Ibn Ezra) as does the American Rabbinical Council of America (RCA) which writes that "evolutionary theory, properly understood, is not incompatible with belief in a Divine Creator, nor with the first 2 chapters of Genesis."
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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UriYosef |
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Sophiee1 wrote:Unless I am totally off base here, it is my impression that ProfBenTziyyon was referring to your use of the term "Correct.", which was then followed by "There is nothing in the Torah that is in conflict with the theory of evolution." in your response to Isaac's comment, "but would that not go against the theory of evolution". In other words, your "Correct." indicates that you agree with his statement, in which he said that ProfBenTziyyon's comments in the prior post to Isaac's would go against the theory of evolution, while your subsequent comments make exactly the opposite statement; hence, the contradiction in (your) comments. Had you said "Incorrect." instead of "Correct.", this contradiction wouldn't have been created. UriYosef
Our raison d'être:
WHOSOEVER DESTROYS A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE IMPUTES [GUILT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD DESTROYED A COMPLETE WORLD; AND WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD. (Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, 37a) The fruits of our effort: The battle against spiritual terrorism is being won, one soul at a time!!! |
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Sophiee1 |
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Yah, I got that. Thus my explanatory post in response -- although yours was MUCH more articulate. I was translating Contradicto in terminis for those who
don't know what it means.
סופי
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12
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