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What is being offered is a minimum of 18 months of classes that go over Halacha. In that time a potential has to move into community and become a part of the community. This particular class has people who have been in it for years because there are things they just don't get. Problem. They've been around because they aren't getting past issues: sometimes personal, sometimes past indoctrination that they are havng a difficult time weeding out or nonJewish actions they haven't moved past. Example, some who sit up front to daven, stand and sit at incorrect times or cover their eyes when they say "shema" every time it is said. Because they are up front, people watch them and follow their example. Seems small and minor maybe, but there are many such things they do. In process, their actions are changing set customs and those who are ffb are not so thrilled. The Baal teshuvot are confused and following the lead of these potentials.

Also, issues, like I had, with atonement, moshiach, authority of rabbis, etc. are not currently being addressed. These people are making comments and acting like they would in their past. So, that's where deprogramming would be helpful. Also, I am not so sure that some things these people say are not dead clues to them being pretenders. May they not be. But I am not so sure.

Members of the community have mentioned this. The community that speaks with me about this, also say that the rabbis in this area for the most part don't seem to be aware of what to look for or how to go about dealing with ingrained exmessianic/exchristians. They aren't graduating them. They see something that isn't quite right and hold them back until they are ready. Some have been in this class 5-10 years. In the meanwhile, what their misguided actions and understandings are doing is making the Jews around here uncomfortable.

Where you fit in is where would we turn to get some help with this? I found your site to be helpful. The rabbi said to look for speakers. I dare say sources for required reading would be included. I am not totally sure what is available and what would be beneficial.

Make more sense?

Hence the insidiousness of messianics. They seem so close to Judaism, but are so perverted. It is easy for the teachings to go undectected by the rabbis. It takes humility on behalf of the exmessianic who is sincere with conversion to say, "what I learned was not so kosher and I have to let go of my past and relearn the truth." It takes wisdom on the rabbis behalf to learn what makes messianics who they are and what are their teachings that are infecting the community. For some reason the rabbis here don't seem to want to learn that...in spite of the situation 10 years ago that happened here that stopped conversions in America. I know one rabbi here who is somewhat aware of messianic techinques. Why? Because he is surrounded by those groups and they come knocking at his door quite frequently. The others have seem to not understand that if they are talking about atonement, someone who is an exmessianic will have an incorrect definition in their mind. The rabbi and the exmessy may feel that they understand each other, but they don't. Next thing you know there are people converting who are struggling with their past education and it is causing them problems in the community. Or there are, chas v'shalom, pretenders sneaking through because they learned the semantics game and the rabbi didn't.

True it seems unfathomable. But it is happening. I will be reviewing your articles again and checking out the Virtual Yeshiva. Also, if there are threads here where a someone is doing the very thing I mentioned of playing a semantic game that can make something sound Jewish, but is not, would you point me to them? You have so many threads and I have limited time. I'd appreciate any direction you can give me. Maybe together we can help stop pretenders from entering the community and help the sincere to clear out their misteachings.