Jews For Judaism. Christians for... what?

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jodav

Jews For Judaism. Christians for... what?

Lead

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Posts: 22

(10/16/09 12:49:57)

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Let me start off by admitting that i hesitated to write this post, but finally decided to do so.

I was thinking: "did I post this question on this forum 2 years ago?"

Well, if I did, just refer me to it, or be so kind as to post your new "updated" 2009 replies here :)

I know this is a Jewish forum for Jews, but my question is this (all the questions below are related):

According to Jewish scholars, what should non-Jews do to be saved and inherit eternal life?

Christians and others like muslims, buddhists, hindus, etc. for that matter.

I know one for sure. Trinity out. Unity in, am I right? What else?

Are we supposed to follow Judaism or something else? (I vaguely remember something about "Noah laws"?)

Are we supposed to follow the 613 commandments?

Are we supposed to stop believing in Jesus as the True Messiah? We must acknowledge him as a false messiah?

Is there a clear answer to this question, or an excellent book on the topic of what Christians should do, according to Jews, to be saved and inherit eternal life?

Muchas Gracias

Joe D.

SearchinMyRoots

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Posts: 615

(10/16/09 13:34:34)

JD,
The Almighty G-d, Blessed be His Name, in His infinite wisdom gave the world the Torah. In it contains the way we should live our lives. G-d choose the Nation of Israel to abide by some extra laws. So the answer is; it's all in the Torah. The way for mankind. G-d loves all of His creation.

Before G-d gave the extra commandments at Mt. Sinai, He had already given mankind the laws of the land. They are the 7 Noahide Laws. All of mankind are to follow them. That is what G-d requires of you.

Sophiee1

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Posts: 12808

(10/16/09 13:37:39)

Moderator

Good topic, JoDav.

The Torah tells us that all people are descended from the same source. We are all G-d's children. G-d loves all of His creation.

People are born with an immortal soul, and this soul is pure. Sins (whether mistakes or intentional) all stem from our physical needs for food, shelter, etc. Since the immortal soul is pure there is no such thing as original sin and no need to be "saved."

G-d created this world for us to learn to choose good over evil. A static thing can't grow (a 100% good angel can't grow). People grow by trial and error and education. The better a person you try to be in this world, the closer you will become to G-d, Jew or Gentile.

Rambam (a great Jewish sage) wrote in Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Teshuvah 3:4:

Righteous gentiles have a place in the world to come.

and the Jerusalem Talmud (Peah 1:1):

It says (Job 37:23): "With justice and an abundance of kindness, He does not deal harshly." G-d does not withhold reward from gentiles who perform His commandments.

G-d gave mankind 7 mitzvot to follow. These are called the Noachide mitzvot. Jews were given an additional 606. Therefore non-Jews should abide by the 7 which are:

Avodah Zarah: Prohibition on idolatry. (no trinity or worshiping a man as a god, no even praying through a person to G-d);
Birchat HaShem: Prohibition on blasphemy and cursing the Name of G-d (this is the Hebrew, holiest name);
Shefichat Damim: Prohibition on murder;
Gezel: Prohibition on robbery and theft;
Gilui Arayot: Prohibition on immorality and forbidden sexual relations;
Ever Min HaChay: Prohibition on removing and eating a limb from a live animal;
Dinim: Requirement to establish a justice system and courts of law to enforce the other 6 laws.

There is no hell, no damnation. If you are a decent person, Jew or Gentile, you will be near to G-d.

"I call heaven and earth to bear witness, that any individual, man or woman, Jew or Gentile, freeman or slave, can have the spirit of G-d bestowed upon him. It all depends on his deeds." (Shaare Tzedek 60a, 60b

סופי

And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12

jodav

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Posts: 23

(10/16/09 15:28:17)

thanks for the replies.

question 1: only these 7 Noachide laws? you mean we/gentiles don't have to keep all the laws of the Torah, like keeping the Sabbath, circumcision, etc.?

question 2: According to these 7 laws, unitarian christians (including Jehovah's Witnesses) have a place in the world to come. Is that true?

question 3: As a matter of fact, according to these laws, even moslems have a place in the world to come?!

question 4: According to your post Sophiee, if Christians abandon the belief in the Trinity, we'd be near God. That's because we believe in and keep these 7 Noachide laws anyway. Am I right?

question 5: why are Jews required to keep 606 more laws (like keeping the Sabbath)? and what's the reward for keeping these 606 laws? (sure doesn't look like an easy task!)

question 6: Judaism doesn't believe in hell? or I misunderstood you?

question 7: any scholarly book or site on this specific topic (of this post)?

Gracias

Joe D.

Sophiee1

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Posts: 12810

(10/17/09 19:32:03)

Moderator

JoDav,

1. Only the 7 Noachide mitzvot -- although many more than seven can be extrapolated (since one of the 7 includes setting up laws and courts of law);

2. If a Chrstian prays through Jsus as an intermediary (whether or not they believe him to be a god) that is still idolatry. If a Chrstian believes that Jsus, a human being, was a messiah and a decent human being but nothing more they are not an idolater;

3. Islam is a monotheistic religion. Actions are more important than beliefs so it is a question of how one lives ones' life based on ones' knowledge of what G-d expects. Muslims reject the Torah, but for the most part their beliefs are compatible with Noachidism;

4. Throughout our lives any of us can repent and return to G-d. This is as true for a gentile as a Jew;

5. G-d gave the Jews a responsibility to help perfect this world (Tikkun Olam) and to help bring non-Jews closer to G-d (a nation of priests). Everyone in this world has a specific role to play: women can have babies, men can't. Kings are given more responsibilities than the average person, etc. Because Jews have been given (and accepted at Sinai) added responsibility we are expected to live up to those responsibilities. This is why it is so difficult to convert to Judaism: no one who is not commited to observing the additional mitzvot should ever consider being a Jew;

6. Judaism does not believe in hell. Hell comes from pagan religions (as does the duality of G-d / Devil).

7. Tons of scholarly books and websites on these subjects. The Virtual Yeshiva has many articles contrasting Judaism to Chrstianity. So does Jews for Judaism and Outreach Judaism, and Judaism's Answer. For information just about Judaism (not contrasting it to Chrstianity) some excellent resources include Being Jewish, Aish HaTorah, Ask Moses where you can ask questions to a Rabbi or puruse the extensive Q&A already there.

For information on Noachidism check out Ask Noah, Noahide.org, Noahide Nation, The Noahide Code by Alan W. Cecil.

Read again the 13 Attributes of Mercy. G-d does not expect the impossible of us. For good Chrstians raised in ignorance of what G-d truly expects their actions will speak for them. Most Chrstians are ignorant of the fact that Chrstianity is idolatry. They are like children who've been lied to. Keeping that in mind, do you really think that the righteous and loving G-d of Israel would punish them for ignorance?

סופי

And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12

Last Edited By: UriYosef 10/17/09 19:49:13. Edited 2 times.

ProfBenTziyyon

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Posts: 2499

(10/17/09 19:55:13)

jodav wrote:
you mean we/gentiles don't have to keep all the laws of the Torah, like keeping the Sabbath, circumcision, etc.?

The mitzvah of milah ("circumcision") was given specifically to Avraham and his descendants (which per the Talmud on folio 59b of Treatise Sanhedrin includes his descendants through K'turah) but not to anyone else unless they choose to become part of Yisraél. Shabbat is included in the passage that christians call "The Ten Commandments" (although it actually contains many more than ten individual mitzvot), which is explicitly addressed (Sh'mot 20:2) to those whom God "had brought out of Egypt, the place where they were enslaved" and Sh'mot 31:16-17 emphasizes that Shabbat was ONLY to be observed by Yisraél.

jodav wrote:
According to these 7 laws, unitarian christians (including J---h's Witnesses) have a place in the world to come. Is that true?

No, because ALL christians openly flout the prohibition against idol-worship.

jodav wrote:
As a matter of fact, according to these laws, even moslems have a place in the world to come?!

Moslems are not idol-worshippers. They worship the One God just as we do. And Islam is entirely compatible with the Seven Mitzvot; in fact Jews have far more in common with Moslems than we could ever have in common with christians.

jodav wrote:
if christians abandon the belief in the Trinity, we'd be near God. That's because we believe in and keep these 7 Noachide laws anyway. Am I right?

No, you aren't. christians DO NOT "believe in and keep the 7 Noachide laws" because your "god" has a "son", just like the Assyrian, Babylonian, Greek and Roman gods had. But our God does not have a "son"; He doesn't need one to help Him accomplish what He wants to do because He can do whatever He wants ALL BY HIMSELF without the help of a "son" (T'hillim 115:3, 135:6). Any "god" that has a "son" is a false "god" − i.e. an IDOL − and if the "son" is worshipped, it is an IDOL too.

jodav wrote:
why are Jews required to keep 606 more laws (like keeping the Sabbath)? and what's the reward for keeping these 606 laws? (sure doesn't look like an easy task!)

You'll have to ask God why He chose to give Yisraél an additional 606 mitzvot over and above those He gave you. And nobody ever said it's EASY to be a Jew.

jodav wrote:
Judaism doesn't believe in hell? or I misunderstood you?

You did not misunderstand. We don't "believe in" hell because hell is a myth that was invented purely to scare you christians and keep you in line (and the same applies to "Mister Say-tun"). Have you ever read the Creation chapter of B'réshιt? It talks about God's "creating of Heaven and Earth" but there is no mention of any third "place". And the language the Scriptures are written in (i.e. Hebrew) doesn't even have a word for "hell", because hell has never been any part of Hebrew culture.

http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל

Last Edited By: ProfBenTziyyon 10/18/09 11:39:56. Edited 2 times.

Rabbi Yisroel

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Posts: 17

(10/18/09 00:28:31)

Moderator

ProfBenTziyyon wrote:

jodav wrote:
According to these 7 laws, unitarian christians (including J---h's Witnesses) have a place in the world to come. Is that true?

No, because ALL christians openly flaunt the prohibition against idol-worship.

"Flaunt" it, do they? An interesting choice of words.

jodav

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Posts: 25

(10/18/09 02:36:20)

Gracias for the replies.

(1)A few quick questions: if Jews don't believe in hell, the natural next question would be: what happens to bad people and idolaters when they die?

(2)what is the reward for becoming a Jew? with greater responsibility there must be a greater reward. what is it?

(3) :) Sophiee you said the 7 could be extrapolated. So we'd have to abide by the 7 along with their extrapolation? if so do the sites you provided include a comprehensive list of all these laws? (seven + extrapolations)?

extra (4) :) profben, descendants of Abraham through Sarah (--> Isaac), Hagar (--> Ishmael), Keturah? (not sure if Keturah was a "wife" or "concubine". I read in many places that a concubine is not a wife. however, her children are considered legit)

or it is just through Isaac, since you wrote "but not to anyone else unless they choose to become part of Yisraél."

JD

Sophiee1

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Posts: 12814

(10/18/09 07:29:45)

Moderator

Not all Chrstians are idolaters, although the vast majority would fall into that category.

And do you remember my mentioning that G-d doesn't punish people for things they can't possibly know or understand? Think of Spiderman (created by a Jew). With great power comes great responsibility. The more you can do, the more you must do.

There is no hell, right? And although the T'nach is pretty silent on what happens in the next world (because quite honestly we don't much care -- that isn't the focus of why G-d put us in THIS world), we have some ideas which include:

1. Reincarnation.

2. Resurrection.

3. Gan Eden (what you call heaven).

4. Non-existence.

I can point you to some articles on all of these if you'd like. Let's start first with a nice person, say someone who spends their life helping others and doing charitable works. Remember that I said actions are more important than beliefs. That person may have been a religious Chrstian their whole life -- and that person will be rewarded for the good that they did. They will not be punished for something they didn't know or realize (that Chrstianity is idolatry) because they fall into the category of one who was like a kidnapped child who was never taught properly (Tinok shenishba).

A person who doesn't know any better won't be punished for something out of their control, but by the same token they won't be rewarded for what they didn't do either.

What happens to really horrible people since there is no hell? Well, just how horrible is "horrible"? That is for G-d to decide. Remember that the eternal soul is pure - sins all arise from our life force, the part that keeps animals and humans physically alie. Some souls may spend time in Gehenna (think of it as remedial education). People who were truly horrible (think Stalin and Hitler, but who knows?) have their immortal souls returned to the infinite, they lose their individual right to exist (as an individual).

If you want to know more you might want to read Jewish Views of the Afterlife.

סופי

And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12

ProfBenTziyyon

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Posts: 2502

(10/18/09 07:53:08)

Rabbi Yisroel wrote:
"Flaunt" it, do they? An interesting choice of words.

Incorrect choice of words.... I meant to write "flout", and I've amended Post #5 accordingly.

http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל

Last Edited By: ProfBenTziyyon 10/18/09 11:33:58. Edited 2 times.

ProfBenTziyyon

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Posts: 2503

(10/18/09 08:44:12)

jodav wrote:
descendants of Abraham through Sarah (--> Isaac), Hagar (--> Ishmael), Keturah? ....or it is just through Isaac, since you wrote "but not to anyone else unless they choose to become part of Yisraél."

Jodav, you are mixing up two different things. The promises God made to Avraham were specifically limited to his "zera", a term that He defined (in the context of His promises to Avraham) in B'réshιt 21:12, כִּי בְיִצְחָק יִקָּרֵא לְךָ זָֽרַע "your zera will be reckoned [only] through Yitzḥak". However, the mitzvah of milah ("circumcision") is different and applied to all Avraham's descendants, including his descendants through Yishmaél and all K'turah's six sons (Zimran, Yokshan, M'dan, Midyan, Yishbak and Shu'aḥ − B'réshιt 25:2).

A פִּלֶֽגֶשׁ pilegesh ("concubine") is defined in the Talmud (Treatise Sanhedrin, folio 21a) as a wife who does not have a k'tubbah (marriage contract); Rashi claims that K'turah was another name for Hagar, and Avraham took her back after Sarah died, but there is no Scriptural support (even indirect) for this.

Sophiee1 wrote:
Not all chrstians are idolaters, although the vast majority would fall into that category.

This is at odds with the Rambam's opinion (Mishneh Torah, Avodah Zarah 9:4 and Ma'achalot Asurot 11:4) that christians are unconditionally considered idolaters (עֹבְדֵי עֲבֹדָה זָרָה).

http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל

Sophiee1

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Posts: 12815

(10/18/09 12:13:11)

Moderator

In Rambam's day there weren't as many iterations of Chrstianity. The orthodox Chrstianity of that time held only one POV -- that Jsus was G-d and part of the trinity. Today there are thousands of iterations of Chrstianity and it is impossible to lump them together and say that all of them believe one specific thing. The Chrstianity of today is a real "mish mash" of ideaologies.

Rambam also wrote (Hilcot Melachim, aka Laws of Kings 11,4):

"Even Jsus the Chrstian, who thought he was the Messiah... was the subject of a prophesy in the Book of Daniel (11, 14):

"...also the renegades of your people will exalt themselves to fulfill the vision - but they will stumble."

Could there be a greater stumbling block than this [Jsus]?

For all the prophets spoke of the Messiah who will redeem and save Israel, who will ingather all its exiles, and who will strengthen them in the fulfillment of the Torah's commandments - while he [Jsus] caused Israel to be killed by the sword, their remnants to be dispersed and humiliated, the Torah to be switched for something else, and most of the world to worship a G-d other than the G-d of Israel!

But - the thoughts of G-d cannot be fathomed by human minds. For our ways are not like His, and our thoughts are not like His. All these activities of Jsus the Chistian, and the Ishmaelite who came after him, are all for the purpose of paving the way for the true King Messiah, and preparing the entire world to worship G-d together, as is written (Tzefaniah 3,9):

'For then I will convert the nations to a pure language, that they may all call in the name of G-d and serve Him together.'

"How will this work? For by then, the world will already be filled with the idea of Messiah, and Torah, and commandments, even in far-off islands and in closed-hearted nations, where they engage in discussions on the Torah's commandments: some say that the Torah's commandments are true but are no longer binding in these times, while others say that there are hidden, deep meanings to them, and that the Messiah has come and revealed their hidden secrets. But when the true King Messiah arrives, and will succeed and will raise them up, all the peoples will immediately realize that they had been taught lies by their forefathers, and that their ancestors and prophets had misled them."

סופי

And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12

ProfBenTziyyon

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Posts: 2504

(10/18/09 12:29:04)

Sophiee1 wrote:
In Rambam's day there weren't as many iterations of Chrstianity.... Today there are thousands of iterations of chrstianity and it is impossible to lump them together and say that all of them believe one specific thing<<snip>>

Even so, ALL christians believe their "god" has a "son" and, as I wrote in post #5 in response to Jodav's 4th question in post #3,

Any "god" that has a "son" is a false "god" − i.e. an IDOL − and, if the "son" is worshipped, it is an IDOL too.

http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל

Sophiee1

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Posts: 12816

(10/18/09 12:43:12)

Moderator

Actually this isn't true. Not all Chrstians believe their god has a son. Some believe that Jsus was a human being with normal parents. Sure they think he was the messiah (and they're wrong), but that isn't idolatry.

A majority of Chrstians fall into the category of avodah zarah, no question about it, but not all do. This is why generalizations are to be avoided.

Then there is the question of how many of today's Chrstians are to fault for the lies they've been taught generation after generation. It is when they learn that their religion is false and do nothing about it that there is a big problem.

סופי

And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12

jodav

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Posts: 26

(10/18/09 16:11:36)

Profben, Jehovah's Witnesses and other unitarian christian sects do not believe that God has as son in a LITERAL sense.

The Jewish Bible is full of statements like: "you are my son, even my firstborn", "sons of God", etc. You don't take them literally. Neither do JW.

So, it's not true that ALL Christians believe God has a son (in a literal sense).

Do you have a problem with the belief of God's son or sons in a metaphorical sense, as you read in the Jewish Bible?

As for Christians who believe in the Holy Trinity, I'm not going to get into a discussion about it here, but we don't believe Jesus is the Son of God in a PHYSICAL sense the way YOU and I begot children and have children. God Forbid!

To start with, God doesn't have a wife. Second, this is a term that is explained very well by Christian scholars within the framework of the Holy Trinity.

JD

Sophiee1

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Posts: 12817

(10/18/09 16:45:48)

Moderator

JoDav, the trinity in any form is idolatry. G-d is one, not three. Secondly if Jsus wasn't fathered by Joseph (Mary's husband) Jsus' was a mamzer. Mary was a married woman -- anyone who fathered a child with her other than her husband committed adultery. Do you think G-d breaks the very laws He created?

Virgin births were a dime a dozen in ancient times. Pagan. Created not by G-d but by the council of Nicea to placate the pagans they were wooing.

סופי

And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12

ProfBenTziyyon

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Posts: 2505

(10/18/09 17:31:38)

Sophiee1 wrote:
Then there is the question of how many of today's Chrstians are to fault for the lies they've been taught generation after generation. It is when they learn that their religion is false and do nothing about it that there is a big problem.

Sophie, I am well aware of your [erroneous] ideas about the term תִּינוֹק שֶׁנִּשְׁבָּה tinok she-nishbah (a baby who was taken captive). I dealt with this four months ago (although you are still ignoring what I wrote) in post #10 of your thread "What it Means to be a Jew" in the General Judaism Forum. I wrote there:

The critical word in the term תִּינוֹק שֶׁנִּשְׁבָּה tinok she-nishbah (a baby who was taken captive) is תִּינוֹק tinok − a baby. An adult can never be considered as תִּינוֹק שֶׁנִּשְׁבָּה tinok she-nishbah (unless he has "learning disabilities", in which case he falls within a different category of halachah − that of חֶֽרֶשׁ שׁוֹטֶה וְקָטָן ḥeresh shoteh v'katan, "a deaf-mute, imbecile or minor") because an adult who wasn't properly educated has an obligation to arrange for his or her own education. This is why the specific terminology used is תִּינוֹק שֶׁנִּשְׁבָּה tinok she-nishbah.

http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל

ProfBenTziyyon

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Posts: 2506

(10/18/09 18:00:21)

jodav wrote:
Profben, J----ah's Witnesses and other unitarian christian sects....

Jodav, kindly do not call me "Profben" − my personal name is Mordochai and my family name is ben-Tziyyon (literally, "man from Tziyyon"). Also, the nonsense word that precedes "Witnesses" in the name of that crackpot christian sect is very offensive to Jews and you would do well not to use it here; if you really MUST refer to those morons, I suggest you call them "the Witnesses" or "the JW's".

jodav wrote:
it's not true that ALL Christians believe God has a son (in a literal sense).... Do you have a problem with the belief of God's son or sons in a metaphorical sense.... we don't believe J-sus is the Son of God in a PHYSICAL sense the way YOU and I begot children and have children

That's all (nonsense) and "apologetics" of the most deceitful kind. Your own Greek (Text) calls him God's "begotten son" many times, and Mattai 1:20 claims that he was "conceived of (Holy) Ghost". What do you THINK "a begotten son" means, if not a BIOLOGICAL son? You're just trying to move the goalposts because, in the present discussion, it's inconvenient for you to pretend that God has a biological son.

(edited to comply with forum rules regarding treating others with respect. S.)

http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל

Last Edited By: Sophiee1 10/19/09 06:05:18. Edited 2 times.

Sophiee1

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Posts: 12818

(10/18/09 18:44:10)

Moderator

Mordochai, I realize that tinok shenishbah translates literally to "kidnapped infant" yet the pertinent phrase is "Tinok shenishba bein hanachrim" is it not? ("An infant kidnapped and raised by non-Jews").

RAISED certainly indicates that the person is no longer a baby, right?

Shabbat 68b; Shavuot 5a discusses these very issues, nu?

As for Rambam didn't he write in Hilchot Mamrim 3:3:

"However the children and the grandchildren of those in error, whose parents have misled them, those who have been born among the Karaites, who have reared them in their views; each is like a child who has been taken captive among them, who has been reared by them, and is not eager in seizing the paths of the mitzvot; his status is comparable to that of one who has been pressured.

Even though he later learns that he is a Jew and becomes acquainted with Judaism, he is nevertheless to be regarded as a person who is forced, for he was reared in the wrong way. Thus it is of the children and grandchildren of the Karaites who adhere to the practices of their Karaite parents who have erred. Therefore it is proper to cause them to return in repentance and to draw them near with words of peace until they return to the strength-giving Torah."

Have you read The Tinok Shenishbah by R' Chaim Rapoport?

I am not a Rabbi (obviously) and do not know if the concept of tinok shenishbah is foreign to a Noachide or not, but it would seem to make sense.

סופי

And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Bereshit (Genesis) 21:12

Last Edited By: Sophiee1 10/18/09 19:21:57. Edited 1 times.

UriYosef

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Posts: 2014

(10/18/09 19:30:02)

Director of Education

jodav wrote:
JWs and other unitarian christian sects do not believe that God has as son in a LITERAL sense

Nonsense.

Here is a direct quote from the page What Do They Believe? found on the JWs official web-site (my emphasis):

Christ is God's Son and is inferior to Him

Matt. 3:17; John 8:42; 14:28; 20:17; 1 Cor. 11:3; 15:28

Christ was first of God's creations

Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14

Here is a direct quote from Wikipedia's page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarianism:

Unitarianism can very loosely be divided into two categories. Both maintain that God is one being and one "person"-the one Jesus called "Our Father". Jesus is the (or a) Son of God, but generally not God himself. However, they differ as to particulars.

Perhaps you need to do your homework before you come here with your arguments.

UriYosef

Our raison d'être:

WHOSOEVER DESTROYS A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE IMPUTES [GUILT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD DESTROYED A COMPLETE WORLD; AND WHOSOEVER PRESERVES A SINGLE SOUL OF ISRAEL, SCRIPTURE ASCRIBES [MERIT] TO HIM AS THOUGH HE HAD PRESERVED A COMPLETE WORLD. (Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, 37a)

The fruits of our effort:

The battle against spiritual terrorism is being won, one soul at a time!!!

Last Edited By: UriYosef 10/18/09 22:19:23. Edited 1 times.

ProfBenTziyyon

[-]

Posts: 2507

(10/18/09 20:06:37)

UriYosef wrote:
JWs [sic]....

Uri,

The Latin sic ("so" or "thus") is used (usually parenthesized) after a quoted word to call attention to an anomalous or erroneous form and to prevent an assumption on the part of the reader that the original has been misquoted. Since Jodav did not write "JWs" in his original post, your use of sic is incorrect.

http://mordochai.tripod.com - פרופ' מָרְדֳּכַי בֶּן-צִיּוֹן, יְרוּשָׁלַיִם, אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל

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