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Posts: 4492
Thu, 13-Dec-07 18:11:39
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Quote:If you have another opinion because you do not believe the NT, I don't know what more to say except that maybe G-d will give you a light from heaven one of these days.
Posts: 3049
Wed, 19-Dec-07 13:06:57
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Posts: 356
Tue, 25-Dec-07 11:35:33
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Tue, 25-Dec-07 14:50:18
Thu, 27-Dec-07 11:03:11
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Fri, 28-Dec-07 03:58:45
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Thu, 3-Jan-08 08:01:25
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Thu, 3-Jan-08 19:08:32
Quote:ezAad wrote: Only begotten son: = son of God.1. in his human existence: generated by God (Matth.1)2. in his transcendent existence: born from God before all times, light of light, always at the bosom of God; Both meanings can be read in the text. Although John emphasizes the second, transcendent meaning.Malachi's response: Again, no scriptures to back up what you say the GT teaches. Jesus and his disciples used a lot of parables and examples to explain his teaching but NEVER the examples you gave above. Again this is the doctrine of man not of G-d.
Quote:Malachi If we just listen to what we WANT to be true, then we will ultimately end up with MAN'S teachings rather than G-ds.
Quote:Prov.8:22-26. MalachiThe idiomatic aspect of this expression is seen in Jesus' birth. Wisdom is spoken of as being born, which is contextually understood as "created." Similarly, Jesus would be understood as being "born," with the background of the text being that of creation (it being an allusion to Wisdom literature).So Aad, my refutation stands: Proverbs 8:22 says that wisdom was CREATED by G-d and the church always this to mean Jesus, and then used as a masterworkman.
Posts: 1234
Thu, 3-Jan-08 20:41:35
Posts: 20720
Thu, 3-Jan-08 21:06:12
Quote:(John 11:39), I come to the world for judgment. I may give sight to the sightless, but I will blind those who see.(Matthew 5:22), Anyone who nurses anger against his brother must be brought to judgment. . . If he even sneers at him, he will have to answer for it in the fires of hell. (Matthew 10:34), Think not that I have come to send peace to the world. I come not to send peace, but the sword.(John 3:36), He who believes in the Son has everlasting life. But he who does not believe in the Son shall not see life, but shall suffer the everlasting wrath of G-d.
Quote:"For he is merciful, He will atone sin, He will not destroy..." (Psalms 78:38)"The wicked should forsake his ways, and the evil person should forsake his plans, and return to HaShem, Who will have mercy on him, for He forgives abundantly." (Isaiah 55:7). So in Judaism if you are wicked you may still return to G-d. "Tear your hearts, and not your clothes, and return to HaShem your G-d, for He is compassionate and merciful, difficult to anger, and has much kindness, and forgives evil." (Joel 2:13) "For Hashem is a merciful Power...." (Deuteronomy 4:31)"Hashem has made memorials of the miracles He performed for us; Hashem is full of compassion and mercy. Hashem is good to all, and His mercy is on all His creations." (Psalms 111:4-5)"My strength and song is G-d, and this is my deliverance...(Exodus 15:2) "With love, You led the people you rescued...." (Exodus 15:13) "HaShem, HaShem, Omnipotent, merciful and graciously free-giving, slow to anger, with tremendous love and truth. He remembers good deeds for thousands of generations, forgiving sin, rebellion and error." (Exodus 34:6)
Thu, 3-Jan-08 22:08:31
Sun, 6-Jan-08 19:32:14
Posts: 361
Mon, 7-Jan-08 10:46:05
Quote:And I never will understand the "fulfilling of the law" thing. If it is fulfilled, then it shouldn't have to be adhered to. What I see is xtians adhering to SOME of the law, but not to others. Besides, the laws given at Sinai were only for the Jewish people anyway. That is a BIG misunderstanding as well. Gentiles say "you can't keep all of the laws", but the Jews say we can "uphold" and "keep" those that apply as directed by the Almighty. xtians try to convince the Jews that they don't have to abide by the law anymore since it has been "fulfilled."
Quote:Eph. 2:11-12 Wherefore remember that *ye*, once nations in [the] flesh, who [are] called uncircumcision by that called circumcision in [the] flesh done with the hand; 12 that ye were at that time without Christ, aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world...
Quote:Gal 3:13-14 Christ has redeemed us out of the curse of the law, having become a curse for us, (for it is written, Cursed [is] every one hanged upon a tree,) 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come to the nations in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
Quote:Galatans 3:23-26 But before faith came, we were guarded under law, shut up to faith [which was] about to be revealed. 24 So that the law has been our tutor up to Christ, that we might be justified on the principle of faith. 25 But, faith having come, we are no longer under a tutor; 26 for ye are all God's sons by faith in Christ Jesus.
Tue, 8-Jan-08 14:09:30
Tue, 8-Jan-08 16:38:01
Wed, 9-Jan-08 17:54:44
Quote:MalachiThe above is not relevant to this discussion. I was studying the GT since I could read. I was a Trinitarian myself until I was about 26 years old and discovered thru studying the GT without the commentaries that G-d was not Triune.
Quote:Malachi: First, The word "all" can carry with it the understanding of exceptions to the ALL if the context demands it, (there are many examples of this) and this context clearly does since he is first of all revealed as a creation.Second, "Other" is a semantic part of "pas"(Greeek) according to context. As I said there are many examples of this. Col. 1:15 is one of those contexts. Now let's correctly translate this to english verse 15: he is a creation, and in verse 16: For by him were all (other) things created......all (other) things were created by him,for him; and verse 17: And he is before all (other) things, and by him all (other) things consist.
Quote:Malachi Do you agree then that wherever the phrase "firstborn OF something" is found that the firstborn is always a part of the group?
Quote:Malachi Even if a firstborn possess preeminence among the group and the heir, he is still a part of the group and he is still the first one born. There are no biblical exceptions. To deny the primary meaning of the word in regard to Jesus is pure bias at work..........The GT nor the Hebrew Bible calls YHWH the begining of the creation by G-d, where of where did you get that?Also Revelations 3:14, proves beyond doubt that the so called 2nd person of the Trinity is a creation by G-d.In fact, like I said before, wherever the phrase "beginning"(arche) OF something occurs, the beginning is always a part of the group or class. You have the same scenario here with "arche" as you have with "firstborn" in Colossians. Just as "firstborn"(prototokos), so it is with "arche"(beginning). If they are used with OF, then they are a PART of the same group or class as what follows the OF. Both in Colossians and Revelation, what follows the OF is CREATION.
Quote:MalachiI have demonstrated beyond any reasonable doubt that the "firstborn OF something" is a member OF the SOMETHING.
Quote:Malachi The grammar employed in Col 1: verse 16 clearly shows Christ to be the instrument of creation employed by someone else, not the originator of creation. So your misunderstanding of the Greek continues.
Quote:Malachi:Prov 8 shows that this "production" was from times "earlier than the earth", so that could not apply to his becoming a son at Luke. You started with that and came up again with the doctrine of man claming it is the word of G-d.
Wed, 9-Jan-08 22:36:05
Sun, 13-Jan-08 19:21:44
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