ForgotPassword?
Sign Up
Search this Topic:
Forum Jump
Posts: 547
Wed, 7-Nov-07 17:58:20
Quote:UriI don't see in any of what you have quoted from Clement's writings where he says that the 3 were all part of the same godhead, i.e., that all 3 were 1 god - the trinity. In fact, from 42:1-3, by the same logic, or induction, that you are apparently using, one can claim that the apostles are also part of the godhead.:rolleyes
Posts: 20720
Wed, 7-Nov-07 18:37:17
Moderator
Quote:"Have we not (all) one G-d and one Chrst? Is there not one Spirit of grace poured out upon us?
Quote:"Jsus Chrst, the Sceptre of the majesty of G-d" (Epistle 1:16:2)
Quote:concerning His Son the L-rd spoke thus. . .
Quote: May G-d, who seeth all things, and who is the Ruler of all spirits and the L-rd of all fleshwho chose our L-rd J-sus Chrst
Posts: 1781
Wed, 7-Nov-07 18:40:29
Posts: 0
Wed, 7-Nov-07 19:05:43
Quote:ChaimBut that wasn't the question. The question is would YOU drop belief in Jesus if it were proven to you that Jews never knew of a Trinity before the 3rd or 4th century.
Quote:UriYosef Judaism has first claim on this. Christianity is but a "knock-off" from it.
Wed, 7-Nov-07 19:37:12
Posts: 507
Wed, 7-Nov-07 21:50:06
Thu, 8-Nov-07 01:58:42
Thu, 8-Nov-07 05:33:59
Thu, 8-Nov-07 13:03:26
Quote: Sophiee "Have we not (all) one G-d and one Chrst? Is there not one Spirit of grace poured out upon us?Clement I.Hey, here he has Jsus and G-d as separate. Doesn't sound like a trinity to me! (Plus where is the 3rd one?).
Quote: "Jsus Chrst, the Sceptre of the majesty of G-d" (Epistle 1:16:2)The sceptre of G-d, not G-d. . .
Quote: "concerning His Son the L-rd spoke thus. . ."Hmmm, doesn't sound as if they are one and the same to Clement, does it?
Quote:And this one gives a definite death knell to the idea that Clement saw Jsus as part of a duality let alone a trinity. From chapter 64:1 Quote: "May G-d, who seeth all things, and who is the Ruler of all spirits and the L-rd of all fleshwho chose our L-rd J-sus Chrst"Clement is obviously speaking of two entities here: one being G-d and the other being Jsus whom G-d CHOSE. Not a part of the godhead, Rebecca. . .but chosen. . .
Posts: 3049
Thu, 8-Nov-07 13:27:04
Thu, 8-Nov-07 13:53:56
Thu, 8-Nov-07 14:04:54
Uri wrote: Quote: Rebecca "the tanakh is chock full of the truth and wisdom of God for us all"This is not obvious to anyone who has read the GT, since Christians reject the Mosaic Law as being obsolete (Hebrews 8) and having been replaced by a better deal (the "New Covenant", or GT) that includes "Golden Rule", which was also lifted out of the Torah.
Thu, 8-Nov-07 14:41:38
Quote: SophieeRebecca the "sceptre" image comes from GENESIS.
Quote:Note that Clement doesn't quote the gospels anywhere at all. Not once.
Thu, 8-Nov-07 14:44:52
Thu, 8-Nov-07 15:12:19
Thu, 8-Nov-07 15:29:12
Quote:1 peace from Almighty G-d through J-sus Chrst
Quote:1 Clem. 42:2 So then Chrst is from G-d, and the Apostles are from Chrst. Both therefore came of the will of G-d in the appointed order
Quote:1 Clem. 42:3 Having therefore received a charge, and having been fully assured through the resurrection of our L-rd Jsus Chrst and confirmed in the word of G-d with full assurance of the Holy Ghost, they went forth with the glad tidings that the kingdom of G-d should come.
Quote:1 Clem. 46:6 Have we not one G-d and one Chrst and one Spirit of grace that was shed upon us?
Quote:1 Clem. 64:1 Finally may the All seeing G-d and Master of spirits and L-rd of all flesh, who chose the L-rd Jsus Chrit, and us through Him for a peculiar people, grant unto every soul that is called after His excellent and holy Name faith, fear, peace, patience, long-suffering, temperance, chastity and soberness, that they may be well pleasing unto His Name (G-d) through our High priest and Guardian Jsus Chrst
Quote:1 Clem. 65:2 The grace of our L-rd Jsus Chrst be with you and with all men in all places who have been called by G-d and through Him
Thu, 8-Nov-07 16:00:11
Posts: 4492
Thu, 8-Nov-07 16:09:04
Administrator
Quote:Simply put, the phraseology and ideation that you object to as used by Clement is also used by the NT authors.This is our doctrine, this is our understanding.
Thu, 8-Nov-07 16:48:38
Posts: 330
Thu, 8-Nov-07 16:55:33
Share This