ForgotPassword?
Sign Up
Search this Topic:
Forum Jump
Posts: 20720
Sat, 7-Oct-06 18:54:26
Moderator
Posts: 824
Sun, 8-Oct-06 17:43:52
Quote:Dead people walking around? Unrecorded.
Quote:Matthew 27:52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Posts: 349
Mon, 9-Oct-06 01:06:50
Quote:Xians will say "he was unimportant so that is why the Romans didn't mention him" but how can you say a man with thousands of followers (remember the fish and wine bit?) go un-noticed?
Quote:What does the New Testament say about his fame and to what degree was it known?According to the New Testament, Jesus of Nazareth garnered a great deal of fame and praise during his ministry.Jesus was supposed to be so famous that he drew great crowds..........It certainly seems like Jesus of Nazareth was renowned in a fairly wide circle.The Gospel of John states that Jesus did so many things that it would fill many books.John 21:25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.Yet, all of these things that Jesus was supposed to have done didn't fill the books of anyone outside of the Christian cult writers.[/quote]CyaS
Posts: 2064
Mon, 9-Oct-06 14:22:50
Mon, 9-Oct-06 17:25:20
Quote:"In a startling find, Shlomo Pines publishes citations of the TF appearing in Arabic and Syriac works of the 9th-10th century. These quotations substantially resemble our current Testimonium, but do not have two of the most suspicious phrases: "he was the Messiah" and "if indeed he can be called a man". Pines suggests these editions may have used an authentic, uninterpolated version of Josephus' work."
Quote:There is no historical reference to Jsus life, death or the crucifixionnothing at all. John E. Remsburg, in his classic book The Chrst: A Critical Review and Analysis of the Evidence of His Existence 1 lists the following contemporary historians/writers who lived during the time, or within a century after the time, that Jesus was supposed to have lived: Apollonius Persius Appian Petronius Arrian Phaedrus Aulus Gellius Philo-Judaeus Columella Phlegon Damis Pliny the Elder Dio Chrysostom Pliny the Younger Dion Pruseus Plutarch Epictetus Pompon Mela Favorinus Ptolemy Florus Lucius Quintilian Hermogones Quintius Curtius Josephus Seneca Justus of Tiberius Silius Italicus Juvenal Statius Lucanus Suetonius Lucian Tacitus Lysias Theon of Smyran Martial Valerius Flaccus Paterculus Valerius Maximus PausaniasEnough of the writings of the authors named in the foregoing list remains to form a library. Yet in this mass of Jewish and Pagan literature, aside from two forged passages in the works of a Jewish author, and two disputed passages in the works of Roman writers, there is to be found no mention of Jsus. . .
Mon, 9-Oct-06 20:32:29
Tue, 10-Oct-06 13:09:52
Tue, 10-Oct-06 16:22:54
Tue, 10-Oct-06 18:43:45
Posts: 22
Thu, 26-Oct-06 20:07:25
Posts: 0
Wed, 1-Nov-06 18:59:16
Posts: 4492
Wed, 1-Nov-06 19:11:15
Administrator
Quote:As far as I know the following can be stated as historical truths:1. 'Yoshua' was a common name there and then, like 'John' in our days.
Wed, 1-Nov-06 20:40:29
Quote:Aad -4. A religion (Christianity) came into existence in the first century, centred (from hearsay) around a man called Yoshua/Jesus of Nazareth. This religion spread like fire
Quote:This is no hard proof; but I'd say on the basis of this it will be harder to proof such a man can never have existed there and then.
Quote:How famous was Jesus of Nazareth supposed to be?What does the New Testament say about his fame and to what degree was it known?According to the New Testament, Jesus of Nazareth garnered a great deal of fame and praise during his ministry.Jesus was supposed to be so famous that he drew great crowds.Some examples of the fame of Jesus follow:Matt 4:23-25 , Matt 9:26,31,Matt 14:1,Mark 1:28,Luke 4:14-15,37.......................................It certainly seems like Jesus of Nazareth was renowned in a fairly wide circle.The Gospel of John states that Jesus did so many things that it would fill many books.John 21:25And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.Yet, all of these things that Jesus was supposed to have done didn't fill the books of anyone outside of the Christian cult writers.....................Jesus of Nazareth is supposed to be the most famous god-man, but very little is written about him outside of cult circles.Christians are left with the position that Jesus was famous, but in a very limited or isolated way.Now, holding that position is fine, but it doesn't support the propaganda made by preachers that claim history provides overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus. The evidence is not at all overwhelming unless a large measure of wishful thinking is employedWhile it's certainly possible that a cult leader called "Jesus of Nazareth" could have existed, such a claim is far from being an established fact.The New Testament version of Jesus could be an embellished character that was based on an actual person, or it could be based a compilation of various individuals that existed. There's simply no way to know for sure.Christians that insist on the existence of Jesus of Nazareth are claiming that God once showed himself as "Jesus" and performed many miracles, but this same God, that supposedly wants all humans to be saved(1 Tim 2:4), then exits off of the world stage, leaving the task of providing evidence for his appearance to cult members and the male clerics that authorized their works.
Quote:Aad -Scripture is more than writings that look into the past. Faith is not just subscribing a list of historical truths
Thu, 2-Nov-06 18:19:02
Thu, 2-Nov-06 19:18:34
Posts: 2024
Thu, 2-Nov-06 20:21:15
Quote:Could it be that the name Yeshua/Yoshua/Jesus as the supposed crucified messiah cannot be found in the Jewish sources you mentioned, because his name and story was not discussed by writers/Rabbi's, because of him supposedly being an idol. What I mean to say is: it was not discussed by the early Rabbi's, because of collective denial and not mentioning the name of an idol, so it was not written down in the sources (commentaries).
Thu, 2-Nov-06 21:33:06
Quote:SophieeWell, Herod died in 4 BCE and Quirinius didn't become governor until 6 CE -- 10 years later.
Thu, 2-Nov-06 22:00:00
Thu, 2-Nov-06 22:03:22
Mon, 6-Nov-06 04:04:18
Share This