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Posts: 5954
Sun, 22-Mar-09 16:26:36
... as my Net access time for today is fast running out, and I won't have any more until Saturday. I was reviewing my file copy of this thread to obtain material I must soon use in writing elsewhere. I admired the performance of my co-religionists. I also saw SMR's questions concerning Luke's Parable of the Pounds, which I evidently passed over the first time around - for the same reason I remain tempted to pass over them now. But that parable also, I must use in the same soon writing elsewhere. SMR said (link): The day of the lord you say?
Mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord: He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored; He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword: His truth is marching on.
Come to find out there are certain ironies with that text, if one studies the life of Julia Ward Howe. At any rate, the Wikipedia article concerning Steinbeck's novel says the immediate referent is Revelation 14:19-20. That in turn is based on numerous referents in HaNaviim, which I mean to research this week. The bottom line is that the referent in Howe's text, and in Folah's references, is the coming of Messiah, with his day of judgment and extermination of all those who may oppose his rule. Of which, with anticipations, HaNaviim are replete.
Thu, 2-Apr-09 14:20:37
ASIDE: At one time, I actually believed that the apostle John (Yonah) is alive today. I assumed that G-d had arranged for him to look much younger than his age.
==================================
It didn't take me long to find, eh, just a couple, references to "the Day of the L-rd", a.k.a. "Judgment Day," in TaNaKh.
The most important, or best-known, appear to me to be these:
Amos 5:18-20 Isaiah 63:2 Isaiah 66:14-16 Isaiah 66:22-24
Joel 3:14 Micah 4:1-7 Zephaniah 1:7-18 Zephaniah 3:8-20
The Isaiah 63 is the source for the "grapes of wrath" reference.
A few more:
Amos chapters 8-9 Ezekiel 7:19 Ezekiel 13:5 Ezekiel 30:1-10 Habak 3:16 Haggai 2:20-23 Hosea 5:9 Isaiah 2:12 Isaiah 2:18 Isaiah 3:18 Isaiah 5:26 Isaiah 9:13 Isaiah 10:1 Isaiah 10:15 Isaiah 11:10-11 Isaiah 12:1 Isaiah 13:6
Isaiah 13:11 Isaiah 17:4 Isaiah 17:7 Isaiah 17:9 Isaiah 19:16 Isaiah 19:18 Isaiah 19:23-24 Isaiah 22:5, 8, 12, 15 Isaiah 24:21 Isaiah 25:6 Isaiah 26:1 Isaiah 27:1, 12 Isaiah 28:1 Isaiah 30:23 Isaiah 31:6 Isaiah 34:8 Isaiah 61:1
Jeremiah 4:9 Jeremiah 7:30 Jeremiah 9:25 Jeremiah 16:14 Jeremiah 18:13 Jeremiah 23:5, 7 Jeremiah 25:33 Jeremiah 30:4, 8 Jeremiah 33:14 Jeremiah 46:7 Jeremiah 48:37 Jeremiah 50:21 Job 20:20 Job 21:30 Job 24:1 Joel 1:15 Joel 2:1-3
Joel 2:11 Joel 2:31 Malachi 3:2 Malachi 3:17 Malachi 4:1 Malachi 4:3 Malachi 4:5 Micah 5:10-15 Micah 7:7-13 Obadiah 8 Obadiah 15 Obadiah 16 Zechariah 9:16 Zechariah 2:11 Zechariah 3:9 Zechariah 8:23 Zechariah chapters 12-14
The "Day of the L-rd" is to have these features: o rewards for righteous and humble Jews; o punishment of all who have troubled Israel, including - enemy gentile nations - the insolent, apostate and idolator, regardless of ethnicity; - those who have oppressed the needy, again regardless of ethnicity.
Unfamiliar as I am with what the Sages have said on this topic, based on what I have learned on this board pertinent the Messianic Age, this "Day of the L-rd" is not likely to be any fun for my co-religionists or me.
As to the Parable of the Pounds (Luke 19:11-27), these points:
(1) A historical Jsus never told this parable. That person never had any notion of "going away and coming back." The church, on the other hand, having expected him imminently to re-appear in glory, became increasingly anxious, as time went on, over this "delayed parousia." That gave rise to parables such as this, and of the delayed bridegroom, and so on.
(2) The speaker in the parable is never identified as Jsus.
(3) I am unaware of any Chrstian ever using this text to warrant abuse of anyone. Other texts, yes. Not this one.
(4) The Lukan version, in contrast to the Matthean, is modeled on actual historical events.
But the citizens of his country hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, "We do not want this man to rule over us."
The last will of Herod the Great designated that his son Archelaus should inherit Judea, his son Antipas should inherit Galilee, and his son Philip inherit the Decapolis. By the time Herod died, Archelaus' character was sufficiently well known that, when he traveled to Rome for the ratification of the will, a delegation of 50 prominent Judeans followed, who petitioned Caesar to put that will aside. He didn't. Amid reports of the turmoil that prevailed in Archelaus' subsequent short reign, I have not been able to find out what became of them. One assumes, however, they paid with their lives.
Bottom line: Will Messiah treat his foes any differently?
Tue, 7-Jun-11 12:23:03
Posts: 975
Tue, 7-Jun-11 18:49:55
Proteus wrote:... on one of Gideon's most successful threads, have abruptly become pertinent to two current threads:"An inspirational quote from Jesus" and"why is paul unknown".As to the latter, I refer especially to the posts from December 2007, currently in the range of replies nos. 80-89 on page 5 here above.
Wed, 8-Jun-11 11:16:04
Thu, 7-Jul-11 11:22:44
Echoing my post of one month ago today; the pertinent threads this time areRobin Hood
andTestimonium Flavianum
Thu, 7-Jul-11 13:19:24
Proteus wrote: Echoing my post of one month ago today; the pertinent threads this time areRobin Hood andTestimonium Flavianum
Fri, 8-Jul-11 13:30:39
If we get at all into the things I think we need to on either of those threads, there will be links and references made back here.
Note that one of your latest posts to me concluded with a quote from this thread.
It's just as well not to re-invent the wheel if one doesn't have to.As to measuring interest, I note a historical pattern that the ratio of views to posts is normally 20:1. By that standard, no current thread has generated much interest.
Fri, 5-Aug-11 09:16:13
Proteus wrote: If we get at all into the things I think we need to on either of those threads, there will be links and references made back here. Note that one of your latest posts to me concluded with a quote from this thread. It's just as well not to re-invent the wheel if one doesn't have to.As to measuring interest, I note a historical pattern that the ratio of views to posts is normally 20:1. By that standard, no current thread has generated much interest.
Fri, 5-Aug-11 10:12:44
Fri, 5-Aug-11 10:58:00
Proteus wrote: ... to say back while the thread was still active, that particular question will remain unanswered, in that I don't believe the two can be equated.
Fri, 5-Aug-11 11:08:37
Well, you're wrong on a number of theological points, but I'll let that go.Can you please quote directly from the post in which I brought up this equation?
Fri, 5-Aug-11 13:56:24
Proteus wrote: Well, you're wrong on a number of theological points, but I'll let that go.Can you please quote directly from the post in which I brought up this equation?
Re: Why didn't Yeshu know about the future? #3 [-] Posts: 2292 (11/20/07 14:49:35) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Blocking Ignore User's Posts Report Post God God-self does not "know the future."Since the inception of Christianity ... there has been little but tragedy invoked in his name.I'm not so sure. Innumerable hospitals and universities exist founded in that name; and without the services those institutions provided, humanity would be in a very different state. A friend of mine who taught school in Korea informs me that, in that country, there were no orphanages until the Christians came; no one cared for orphans.God took a calculated risk, in doing what God did through Jesus. IMO, on balance, as per what I just said here above, it's paid off. P. The most persuasive caseanyone can make for one's religionis the way one lives one's life.
Posts: 2292
(11/20/07 14:49:35)
Sat, 6-Aug-11 10:43:38
At this writing, Gideon's latest post has not yet been released. I will not be able to read it until Monday.A wrong question cannot obtain a right answer.The right question is available, and I have in mind to post it soon. It entails a change of worldview, such that the wrong question vanishes.It is possible that you will reject the change of worldview. It is possible that you will do so because you prefer to hold onto this, the wrong question, in order to have a basis to hate Christians.Are you willing to allow the wrong question to disappear? Or do you instead prefer to keep it, as a basis to hate Christians?
Posts: 20720
Sat, 6-Aug-11 19:01:52
Moderator
Mon, 8-Aug-11 10:41:35
I never said Gideon said he hates Christians, nor have I ever said he hates Christians.I cannot fathom any other usefulness the question or equation could possibly have.I look forward to hearing back from him on this.
Mon, 8-Aug-11 10:48:21
Sophiee1 wrote: Harry -- when did Gideon ever say he hated Christians?
Mon, 8-Aug-11 10:49:29
Proteus wrote:I never said Gideon said he hates Christians, nor have I ever said he hates Christians.
I never said Gideon said he hates Christians, nor have I ever said he hates Christians.
Proteus wrote:. . .do you instead prefer to keep it, as a basis to hate Christians?
. . .do you instead prefer to keep it, as a basis to hate Christians?
Mon, 8-Aug-11 10:49:57
It was certainly never my intention, by that remark, to create such an equation. It's a comparison of things that belong to two different dimensions.
Mon, 8-Aug-11 10:58:26
A question is not an accusation.
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