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Posts: 4492
Sat, 30-Jun-07 23:18:10
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Quote:How could have that been a lie that they ALL were changed, that they became super evangelizes that all should believe in Jesus?
Posts: 20703
Sun, 1-Jul-07 06:58:03
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Posts: 2135
Sun, 1-Jul-07 07:59:53
Quote:According to the nt, after the crucifixion the disciples were dejected. Peter had denied that he had even known Jesus at his trial. After the resurrection though when they met the risen Jesus, the apostles were so happy, changed and dedicated their lives toward the spreading of the gospel under terrible circumstances and most died as martyrs.Of course there are martyrs in other religions... islam, buddhism etc. But those convictions were based upon indoctrination i.e brainwashing, while the apostles ALL were changed by the direct risen Jesus - in person, not a teaching or philosophy. How could have that been a lie that they ALL were changed, that they became super evangelizes that all should believe in Jesus?
Posts: 2024
Sun, 1-Jul-07 08:01:51
Quote:I neither know or care if Jsus ever lived -- but the idea of "who would die for a lie" is based on a false premise.
Sun, 1-Jul-07 09:19:30
Quote:Of course there are martyrs in other religions... islam, buddhism etc. But those convictions were based upon indoctrination i.e brainwashing, while the apostles ALL were changed by the direct risen Jesus - in person, not a teaching or philosophy. How could have that been a lie that they ALL were changed, that they became super evangelizes that all should believe in Jesus?
Posts: 3232
Sun, 1-Jul-07 09:26:09
Sun, 1-Jul-07 09:58:41
Posts: 1507
Sun, 1-Jul-07 10:09:38
Quote:According to the nt, after the crucifixion the disciples were dejected. Peter had denied that he had even known Jesus at his trial. After the resurrection though when they met the risen Jesus, the apostles were so happy, changed and dedicated their lives toward the spreading of the gospel under terrible circumstances and most died as martyrs.
Posts: 308
Sun, 1-Jul-07 10:24:42
Sun, 1-Jul-07 10:25:07
Quote: Netanel, Exactly. Having enough conviction in a belief that you would "die for it" is not equal to that belief being true.In the case of the disciples, they themselves met with Jesus after he had been resurrected in person. It was not a "belief", taught to them by others. And according to the nt, Jesus made sure that 100% of them experienced him in person even Thomas. And they themselves saw Jesus ascend to heaven.
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