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Wed, 18-Jul-07 18:35:41
Wed, 18-Jul-07 18:50:08
Wed, 18-Jul-07 19:19:25
Quote:Exodus 22:15 If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed, he must pay a dowry and must marry her. 22:16 If her father refuses to allow him to marry her, then he must pay [the father] the usual dowry money for virgins.
Quote:Genesis 24:58 They summoned Rebecca and said to her, 'Do you want to go with this man?' 'I will go,' she replied.
Wed, 18-Jul-07 19:50:38
Thu, 19-Jul-07 06:48:16
Quote:I have no doubt, of course, that Orthodox Jews have a lower premarital sex rate. When I was at Chabad, men weren't allowed to even shake hands with the women there. Under these conditions, sex becomes much less likely. . .Looking at the written law, I don't see anywhere where it clearly states not to have premarital sex. Even the Ask Moses site says that rabbis can't agree where in the law it's prohibited, just that it's prohibited somewhere.
Quote:I would also add that the written Torah is VERY specific about all sexual matters. . .The Torah goes through who and what a man can't have sex with, and then does the same for a woman, even though, it would have been reasonable to assume the rules are the same for both sexes. However, it is noticeably absent on premarital relations.
Quote:I'm not quite sure what this has to do with Shemlke's original arguemnt about premarital sex -- since Judaism doesn't condem premarital sex per se (as do Southern evangelicals as Shmelke pointed out -- and this causes a higher rate of sexual teen activity).Exodus 22:15-16 says that if a man has sex with a virgin and isn't engaged to her he must either pay the dowry and marry her (if it is acceptable to her and her father) -- or she doesn't want to marry her he must at least pay the dowry.Keep in mind that "in those days" men could have multiple wives and / or concubines. Torah is saying what will happen "if" and the resultant consequences -- but there is no moral negativism here -- and that this is addressing seduction and not forceful rape.Rape has a whole 'nother level of issues.Note also if the girl becomes pregnant there is not negativism on the child. S/he (the child) is not a bastard. There is no such concept as "bastard" in Judaism. So how does Exodus 22 impact in any way the fundamentalist Xian concept of "don't at all costs have sex before marriage or burn in mythical hell"? (Meanwhile all those kids are having sex)?Not quite sure how the original poster thought Exodus 22 supported all those fundie Xian issues about sex. Because it doesn't. Sex is not evil. Not even with virgins.
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