I've heard that some Christians think they're Noahides. Who decides what constitutes idolatry? I would certainly think that most Jews would not consider worshipping any human as being free from idol worship.
Noahides = Christians?
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 adara |
Noahides = Christians? |
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Posts: 69 (08/17/07 18:05:27) |
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UriYosef |
Re: Noahides = Christians? | ||
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Posts: 4338 (08/19/07 00:35:24) Director of Education |
adara -
The 7 Laws of Noah are the standard for Noahides. The Noahides accept the Hebrew Bible and their Scriptures and the G-d of Israel, as described in the Hebrew Bible, as their G-d. They also accept the works of the Jewish Sages. So, the idea that some Christians think they're Noahides is similar to the idea that some Christians think they're "Jews" (e.g., Jews for yeshu, or "messianic jews"). What these people think doesn't really matter - the teachings of the Hebrew Bible matter. UriYosef |
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James7 |
Re: Noahides = Christians? | ||
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Posts: 3 (09/01/07 08:37:12) |
Hey, I'm a Noahide and just thought i might add a note to Uri's post.
All gentiles are B'nei Noach so really Xians are "Noahides", but they aren't following the Torah. So if a Xian says, "I'm a Noahide." S/he is right, but he isn't "observant." |
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Splitter |
..a non-hunting dog. | ||
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Posts: 28 (09/18/07 20:26:21) |
I dunno... an xtian who claims to be a noahide... that dog just don't hunt.
The first noahide law is to believe in G-d and not worship idols. By default, anything other than G-d is an idol, and xtians worship other than the ONE TRUE G-D. Am I off key here? |
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UriYosef |
Re: ..a non-hunting dog. | ||
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Posts: 4338 (09/19/07 16:30:45) Director of Education |
Splitter -
Quote:No, yo're not off-key. Christians think they worship the same god as the G-d of Israel, the G-d of the Hebrew Bible, but we're taught by the Hebrew Bible that G-d is One and not 3-in-1, that He is infinite, not finite in a man's body, that He is all-knowing, not needing to learn and "gain wisdom", that He doesn't pray to Himself, etc., etc., etc. UriYosef |
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Splitter |
Re:Re: ..a non-hunting dog. | ||
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Posts: 28 (09/19/07 21:01:10) |
I knew I wasn't off key... thanks for the confirmation Reb Uri.
 I guess I just don't get how they can call a circle a square... even when the square won't roll, they continue. Just doesn't make any sense. |
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adara |
Interpretation, interpreschmation | ||
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Posts: 69 (09/20/07 12:08:57) |
Splitter, I agree wholeheartedly. The most common explanation I hear is that we all worship the same Creator, but our "interpretations" of Him differ.
If I ever get stopped again for speeding, I'm going to tell the officer that my interpretation of the law is just slightly different than his, but we are both obeying the same law! |
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UriYosef |
Re: Interpretation, interpreschmation | ||
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Posts: 4338 (09/20/07 15:05:02) Director of Education |
adara -
Quote:  Now that's a good one!!! UriYosef |
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ZeevMichael |
Re: Interpretation, interpreschmation | ||
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Posts: 60 (10/17/07 05:12:14) |
Bottom line - Noachides don't try to convert Jews. The minute you do, you lose your Noachide card.
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tyolilums |
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Posts: 198 (06/05/08 14:34:39) |
1. Can a Jew convert to a Noahide?
2. Is it better for a Jew to be an observant Noahide than an non observant Jew to the full Jewish Law?
To You , O LORD, I lift up my soul; in You I trust. Psalm 25:1
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Sophiee1 |
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Posts: 10850 (06/05/08 15:00:51) Moderator |
All people are part of the covenant with Noah. The seven mitzvot given to Noachides are also required of Jews.
One doesn't "convert" to Noachidism -- we all start out under the covenant with Noach, although some stray from that path and become apostates. Jews are under another brit with G-d that we agreed to at Mount Sinai. Every Jew alive then and every Jew alive at any time was and is part of that brit -- the bell cannot be "un rung." A non-observant Jew may at any time return to Torah and observance. Unlike the concept of Xianity where one is damned to hell for not believing in Jsus, the Torah recognizes that no human is perfect. That is why Torah has varies ways to atone for sin -- because there are times we will not do things perfectly, whether by accident or on purpose. Also the mitzvot G-d gave to the Jews are not some set of impossibly high standards that one cannot keep. Not all mitzvot apply to all people. Some mitzvot are only for kings. Some mitzvot are only for priests. Some are only possible if you live in the land of Israel. Some are only possible if the Temple is standing. Some mitzvot are only for women. Some mitzvot are only for men. . . So say a Jew is not observant, through ignorance or through stubbornness. . . that Jew one day realizes that s/he should be observant but doesn't even know where to begin -- this in itself is a mitzvah! G-d is far more kind and loving than we could ever be. . . G-d does not require us to be perfect, what does He require? Michah 6:8 says it best: "It has been told you, O' man, what is good, and what the L-RD does require of you, only to do justice, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your G-d".G-d is forgiving and merciful, He forgives us when we fall short of the mark. He expects us to strive to do good, but knows that we are but human and imperfect. Psalm 32:5 "Then I acknowledged my sin to You; 
And everything that Sarah tells you, listen to her voice. Genesis, 21:12
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Netanel |
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Posts: 1137 (06/05/08 15:49:10) |
Ty,
Without long explanations I am going to try to lay this out simply. 1. No. A Jew is inherently obligated to Torah and its 613 mitzvot. Noachide is not something you can convert to, it is something all peoples are ingerently obligated to fulfill. All people are descent from Noach, and thus at the very least are obligated to the Noachide Laws. Jews, on the other hand, have a further commitment. 2. This is like asking is it better for a military officer to be observant of US law than to be a non observant military officer to military laws. A Jew can't become any less than a Jew with the responsibilities of the Torah and the mitzvot. The military officer has more laws than an average citizen, and a Jew has more obligations than a Noachide. Netanel |
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